New Fish Death Question

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by vatso, 15 Mar 2010.

  1. vatso

    vatso

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    New Fish Death

    how much time does one worry about a new fish making it? My Scopas died on the 3rd day of being in the tank got sucked into a pump at night :(

    What is the average Danger time for a fish to survive? I know if they are eating all is good but some don't start eating for a few days.

    Thanks
     
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  3. crispin

    crispin

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    scopas as in a Scoaps tang??? As in a second tang in the same nano after youve dropped a naso tang into a barely cycled tank? sorry for the questions but i just want to make sure I have it all wrong and this is in another suitable tank that I didnt know you have?
     
  4. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    I doubt if the pump would have sucked in a healthy fish. Unless you got some real strong sucker... But even that should be covered

    Although saying that I once caught a very very small old lady like a 10c size. And after 3 weeks in my tank it swim into the 3000L/h powerhead and got stuck to the inlet strainer. He died the next day. Bummer....

    Your fish, I believe it died, and the water movement just washed it up against the pump.
     
  5. mnd123

    mnd123

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    Mark, you should invest in a QT, especially with tangs as they are notorious white spot factories. Get a QT and leave your new fish in there for a few weeks, at least they will not be bullied and so on.

    You will probably find that the naso took exception to the new tang and bliksemed him, which I have seen with my scopas and CBB - but they got over their diffs and are ok now.
     
  6. crispin

    crispin

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    agreed, stress of moving and then being in a tank that is small in volume with a resident tang (bonsai fish apparently meaning its small) and the scops would be harassed to death by a naso thats already set up a territory. I know vatso doesnt want to hear that you shouldnt keep a tang in nano's, so why the hell try two????

    but on the white spot, perhaps its needed to feed the cleaner wrass, so a little ich cant be bad, right?
     
  7. Neil H

    Neil H Moderator MASA Contributor

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    I am in agreement that a healthy tang would not be sucked into a pump. The tang IMO was stressed and weakened perhaps by transport catching or importing, but certainly if this is a second tang in a small tank, i think the answer as to why is was stressed should be self evident.

    I have heard of and seen clowns hosting powerheads, if they are able to avoid the sucking of the powerhead then a healthy tang should have no problem

    A QT is an excellent idea for every reef tank indeed a quarintine for corals is also reccommended to avoid introducing disease / paracites
     
  8. Tobes

    Tobes Retired Moderator

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    Firstly, how did you acclimatise him?
    Secondly, I know this has been mentioned, but another tang in a nano?
    Common Vatso, you know it's unfair to the fish. Would you be happy if I lock you up in a small toilet and just provide you with food and water? You won't die, but would you be happy?

    One of 3 things happened here

    1 - you bought a sick tang and the naso killed it
    2 - you bought a healthy tang, didn't acclimatise it properly and the naso killed it
    3 - the naso killed it anyway cause 2 tangs don't belong in a nano

    Vatso, please re-think your stocking strategy in the nano and wait for the new tank to have completely cycled before adding fish, then you can add your tangs.

    the funny thing is you know you did something wrong and now you want advice after you didn't listen to the advice given in the first place :whistling:
     
  9. vatso

    vatso Thread Starter

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    I have a QT tank now as my new tank will be ready by Friday - will get it started the weekend.

    I think you are right re the scopes was not 100% healthy. the pump it was sucked into was a SEIO Prop 1500.

    Crispin please can you define Nano size tank!

    Oh & you call me a troll - Crispin have a look at the the attached picture - Now I wonder who the troll is??

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Tobes

    Tobes Retired Moderator

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    Vatso, it is not recommended to add a tang in a tank anything smaller than a 4ft, so how big is your current tank where the tangs are in?
     
  11. vatso

    vatso Thread Starter

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    Hey Tobes

    the Naso did not ever attack the scopes - my jumping bean did which I removed & returned to the LFS

    New tank soon I can't wait & then when a fish does die the small tank thing can't be pulled any more - God I can't wait :whistling:

    How do fish survive at the LFS in such small holding tanks the horror!!!
     
  12. vatso

    vatso Thread Starter

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    Tobes the tank is 1M X 50CM X 50CM = 250lt - the Naso is a babe as well was the scopes - I knew I was getting my new tank & was wanting to use the scopes to remove some algae.
     
  13. Tobes

    Tobes Retired Moderator

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    I'll ask again, how did you acclimatise the scopa tang?
     
  14. vatso

    vatso Thread Starter

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    Angry Tobes - like the other fish - drip line into a bucket for an hour or so
     
  15. Tobes

    Tobes Retired Moderator

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    Not angry Vatso, worried! I'm not going to fight with you, but just wanna say this. Maybe it was a sign that the scopa died to tell you that next time please listen to the guys when they give advice on the forum. There are a lot of experience here between us, and we won't tell you to not do this and do that if we don't know or haven't been through it ourselves. There is a saying - Been there, done that! Got the wet hands!(in this case :p)
    I can really see why people get irritated and possibly mad when someone asks for advice and then doesn't listen - it's like talking to a wall. Please, guys and this goes for all new guys - we help with pleasure, but don't ask for advice and when 20 guys tell you not to do something then you still go ahead and do it. Why then ask in the first place?

    that's just my 2c
     
  16. crispin

    crispin

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    we get angry with the likes of you vatso because you deliberatley abuse things we love and hold dear. Youve been advised nicely on the forum and come back with attitude, you then play a sympathy card and hope we will all be a nice happy family and then you do the exact topic youve been asked not to do before, leading in my humble view to additional stress on a naso tang that is already in unsuited housing and the death of a fish that should not have been put into that tank already.

    you then try claim it was killed by positive water flow.

    and yes, that does make me angry
     
  17. mariusmeyer

    mariusmeyer

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    I have to jump in here and come to the defence of Vatso. I saw this tank a week ago and I saw the naso as well. The naso is still quite small (+-7cm). There are a lot of swimming space for the naso. This tank can not be classified as a nano so tangs in nanos do not apply here. Yes the tang will get way to big for a 1mtr tank in the future but since he has already bought a much bigger system , I reckon the naso will be fine untill the big tank is cycled. What is the difference between a 7cm naso in a 1meter tank and a 25cm sailfin tang in a 1.5mtr tank? Yes the naso could have harrased the scopas so that could have caused the death. But the reason for this post is just to clarrify that this tank is not a nano and that the naso is fine in there for now.
     
  18. crispin

    crispin

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    sure marius, to a degree. When vatso decided to put the naso into the tank which is too small for a tang, yes i am afraid i do believe that tank is too small for a naso, not only was the tank too small, it was not cycled. Coupled to that vatso doesnt have a sump or overflow so hang on in-tank skimmer is used which in turn cuts the swimming space for that fish to live in.

    I spoke to bob the reef and his opinion was that while its not ideal a small naso would be ok, so long as a new home was provided that would give the fish the required space to live and not be 'battery caged.' IE in in a space that is too small for its living conditions. Vatso has a new tank comming, but thats weeks away from being ready to house LS. Then coupled to the fact that vatso younge tank doesnt have a sump or sufficient nutrient export and filtration he decides to add a scopas tang as an experiment to clear up algae. THAT is not right in my view, and i will d i can to discourage others whom might use vatso as an example on how to start and maintain a marine tank. No i dont particularly like vatso or his attitude to the members of masa, his attitude to the keeping of marines or the way he stocks his tanks. But thats actually insignificant the greater worry that vatso sets an example to others that tangs can be kept in nanos, that propper filtration is not required and that abuse of fish is acceptable. I for one will speak out against it, and do all I can to make sure that its not the accepted method on how to start or maintain a reef tank.

    ive biten my tongue on a number of aspects with vatso but the deliberate abuse of a tang that leads to its death is not something i will condone (and thus keep quiet about) and consequently I will and do speak out against it. No it doesnt help my popularity on masa, but then i am not here because i want to be popular.-
     
  19. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish MASA Contributor

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    Vatso, I actually dont like to put you on the spot in public, but I understand the guys here. Remember Vatso? You asked me for advice via PM regarding the dose of vodka.
    I had the same problem with you and it drives me nuts, if somebody ask for advice, but then still does his own way. Read carefully what the people ask for and reply with a clear answer.
    Now we might have the cause of the problem.
    I dont know, if you are dosing vodka as recommended in the article (was it RC?). And I also dont know if you checked your water parameter every time as recommended.
    I know from myself, if it comes to check the parameter, i feel very lazy and I use vodka without checking the water and not in the recommended dosage. But if something goes wrong, I wont ask or tell anybody.
    The Scopas might have been stressed by the jumping bean and the naso. On top of it, your system might lack in oxygen at night, because of an bacteria overpopulation.
    Just a guess. I added by mistake more than double the amount of vodka one morning.
    The result was a marine ich breakout and 450 dead fish incl. Albinos within three days.
    If changing things in a system, then only one thing at the time.
    Take your time with your new tank. It will save you money and all of us plenty of time.
     
  20. Alan

    Alan Admin MASA Contributor

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    Calm it down guys, From what i see here the Naso is certainly not going to out grow its tank in the next couple of weeks and if it does i want to know the food recipe.
    As for the death of the Scop, i would venture a guess at import stress and not enough quaritine time at the LFS. There are times when this happens.
    The quarintine tank is a very good idea.
     
  21. mariusmeyer

    mariusmeyer

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    And I agree with you Crispin. But I feel that everyone here is targeting him(and I am referring to the tang in a small tank here and not his other practices). I just had a look through some of the other medium sized tank threads and there are standard 4ft tanks (same water volume as vatsos) where they have 3 tangs in there and the people dont say anything. The one tank has a YT, scopas and a purple, and rhe other one has a sailfin, blue tang and a powerder blue. No one has said a thing abouth their tanks being too small. But rather they have commented on how nice the fish are. I just feel that is is unfair. So unless people start saying things there, I reckon they should scrap the tang in this tank debate. But on the other issues he should be told where he goes wrong.
     
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