Need help with the sump design

Discussion in 'Anything DIY Related' started by Tremayn, 17 Jan 2011.

  1. Tremayn

    Tremayn

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    So now I need to go to the local shops to get pricing on glass for the sump baffles...
    Decided to make a separate thread for this as it will get the right response

    What I want is:
    1st - Skimmer
    2nd - Return
    3rd - Fudge.
    Im not fussy whether the return or fudge is 2nd. This is a design I got from Melevsreef.com - Welcome!

    [​IMG]

    Its Skimmer on the Left, Return in the middle and Refugium on the Right.

    I have a std 4ft tank for the sump. Can you guys help me out with the design or is this ok?

    Cheers ;)
     
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  3. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    first. why the baffles between skimmer and return and none between refugium and return?

    Why return chamber so BIG. Or must other equiptment be housed in same compartment? With a ATU, your return chamber theoretically can be just big enough to get the return pump and ATU switches in there.
     
  4. Tremayn

    Tremayn Thread Starter

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    Hey, no this is just the idea, I want the return small. Baffles between the skimmer and return is the bubble trap, or dont I need this? I want the water level pretty high in the refugium so I can have lots of Macroalgae and want the water level in the skimmer and return chambers low
     
  5. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    What footprint do you have available for a sump?

    Agree, I like the refugium as well. Nice and deep.
     
  6. Tremayn

    Tremayn Thread Starter

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    Sorry my pc and modem blew! The skimmer basically takes half of my sump. I sat with Ziyaadb and designed the sump, only thing is that he had is set up like skimmer then a dsb, so the water level would be very low in the refugium. Thats why I want the separate refugium like in the pic
     
  7. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    length and width?

    plus skimmer footprint
     
    Last edited: 19 Jan 2011
  8. Tremayn

    Tremayn Thread Starter

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    skimmer footprint is 42cmx25cm. its the nw250 with 1xotp5000 .. I have to measure it actually when its in the sump. Ziyaadb said that I should make a bubble trap before the skimmer so that the water wont be turbulent. Lol he is on another level on skimmer know how so he must be correct :)
     
  9. Tremayn

    Tremayn Thread Starter

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    sump is 1.2m long and 45cm wide. Standard 4ft tank
     
  10. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Standard 1.2

    skimmer needs 250 by 430mm, hopefully it fits sideways as sump is 450 wide, skimmer needs 420. glass is 8mm, so that leaves 14mm.

    So first compartment at about 300mm, leaves us with 1.2 - (8*2 tank sides) - the glass partitions (lets say 2), so another 16mm. That is then 868mm. Return chamber at least 150mm wide. To at least get a descend size pump in there. So left over is standard 3 part sump (skimmer, dsb, return) leaves you with a 718mm DSB by 434mm. Not bad. Any extra reactors? other pumps in return chamber?

    But on such a small return chamber, you must have a ATU. Where is your RO drum or container? Making that part of the sump, let say 150mm wide, water level at 400 deep, gives you 26L for RO. Should be ok for 2 days, hopefully 3, so you can go away on a weekend without worrying of RO is OK. Then DSB shrinks to 560 (need another 8mm for extra panel).

    DSB or Refugium, same space. Does not matter what layout you take, that will be your max for DSB or refugium.

    What is the space vertically available under the tank? Standard 1.2 is 450mm high? What depth can your skimmer stand without being drowned? What space, if you lift the skimmer on stands, do you have above skimmer to be able to remove your cup?

    Can you get your skimmer out? most likely the first chamber needs to go a bit wider , to be able to get it in. Say about 400mm. So your DSB area shrink to 460.

    Using a standard 1.2, I will have the water level very high. Put skimmer on stilts. Water level above DSB deep. Say 200mm or more, to have refugium above DSB. You do not have the luxury of other space.

    Do your 1.2 have any bracing? how does that impact the skimmer? If skimmer must go in lengthwise, then you stuffed. About 550mm to 600mm for first chamber. So the refugium ends up at 260mm. That will not work. Move RO chamber to be behind the skimmer compartment, If you can fill it up there. So you save the 158 for RO chamber, adding that to refugium/dsb space. 418 is better than 260.

    All these do not take into account any other future reactors you might need. In sump reactors. Unless you do have more space, to house them outside the standard 1.2. Then maybe move RO chamber out as well.

    Take all your equipment, including your heaters. And put them into the 1.2 BEFORE you start to add partitions. Use masking tape or cellotape to mark water levels. Take a picture. Make sure it will work. Put a plank or anything over the tank, to simulate the space under the tank. Can you get skimmer out? Can you get your head in there?

    Good luck
     
  11. Tremayn

    Tremayn Thread Starter

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    Thanks RiaanP :) , I had the stand extended to 70cm high. The skimmer is 60cm so I used a measuring tape to test if I can get the cup off in that height and it works :) .. The stand is 70cm wide. I will use an external container for the RO top up, like a bucket or something. I removed the bracing from the sump but when i placed the skimmer in the sump I had to do it length ways so it takes almost half of the sump! I just want a simple system but I know that I will have a small DSB/refugium, around 30cm, but its better than nothing right? In the future I will try and extend the sump by just making compartments on the outside etc. If I use reactors I will use external reactors. As I see it, there is a bit of room to work with under the stand :) .. JUst have some stuff to do today but Ill place the skimmer in the sump and take a pic :) .. Thanks for all your help mate :thumbup:
     
  12. Tremayn

    Tremayn Thread Starter

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    I just measured it. The inlet section + skimmer section is 60cm, so at most the refugium will be 45cm haha...
     
  13. Manic

    Manic Moderator

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    No a small dsb is not better than nothing. This is going to start a whole argument again but I can see that you want to put effort into this tank so why not go refuge or np pellets instead of a dsb.
     
  14. Tremayn

    Tremayn Thread Starter

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    Yo man. No I want a refugium :) Im just gonna make the sand abit deep to get some dsb action lol... but what I want is a refugium.. lol NP pellets no thanks lol.. If I remember you hated them lol ;)
     
  15. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Yip, no debate.

    But first, what is your target corals?

    Get yourself the Coral magazine Sep/Oct issue.
    There is a complete article about "Probiotics Demystified" 16 pages. With Pro's and Con's
    Magazine is about R120, but that is nothing compared to what you want to spend on your tank. So get some good info before you commit. Ask Dorry Pets or Idol Marine, as I know that both do stock these mags. If this one is still there after other people read my post, I doubt.

    I did not yet read the full article, but by looks, it seems that mostly SPS dominated system scores more with NP-pellets or Zeovit or whatever. They list and compare 10 different products. I do not see a Pincushion in any of the pics for example.
     
  16. Manic

    Manic Moderator

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    I agree with you totally there RiaanP. Running a zeovit system with softies such as leathers is going to end badly and cost a lot for nothing. Lps can tolerate low nutrients but essentially those type of systems are ultimately aimed at sps.
     
  17. *Philip*

    *Philip*

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    How about using my design ;)
     
  18. *Philip*

    *Philip*

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    [​IMG]
     
  19. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb

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    erm this was built a loong time ago
     
  20. Trident

    Trident

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    Hey, now we talking my language!!

    Don't coplicate things, the best filtration is the simplist one! Refugium / DSB whatever.. personally i prefer straight forward refugium with shallow gravel. As long as it removes nitrates and provides food....The more time the water spends in the refugium the better it works. Flow rate depends on the width of the refugium.
    Have a look at this one. We had height but the same princeaple applies to length.
     
  21. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    a lot of wasted space.
    First inlet on the left, 120mm, Do not need it, it can be the same area than the skimmer compartment. So your DSB can be enlarged by 120mm. That's an increase of 28%.

    Dividers around centre part, also not needed. Water level should be max 30mm lower than the compartments next to it. So that the water falling over do not create a waterfall effect pulling in bubbles to the return pump. So that is another 100mm. So your DSB could be 51% bigger than the one you got.

    Do not know what skimmer you got, but you assigned 370mm area for it. If you got a skimmer rated for your system, make that compartment just big enough to get the skimmer in and out.
     
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