Urgent help needed Need advice

Discussion in 'Urgent Help Needed' started by Theo, 11 Oct 2017.

  1. Theo

    Theo

    Joined:
    11 Sep 2009
    Posts:
    255
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    Yantai, China
    Good day all.

    I’ve set up a new reef a couple of months ago. The tank is a 600L tank. I’ve got a big skimmer, zeovit reactor- dosing zeostart, zeo bak and zeofood. I’ve got a calcium reactor containing ca and mg media , and I’m using a maxspect razor light.

    I am at my ends with this. I added 2 snowflake clowns which died, after that I added 2 blackice clowns which also died. Before adding the fish I quarantined them for 3 weeks and they were fine, and tested the DT water, all parameters where normal.

    Do you think my liverock can cause this? I bought the rock as deadrock, gave it a bath in muriatic acid and afterwards had it in a bucket for 24 hours with high flow on them, and added baking soda to neutralize the acid. I rinsed it 3 times after that. I started up the tank and let it cycle for 4 months, doing a 100% at month 2, I also added a couple of liverock I bought from a LFS to seed it. This is my first guess.

    My second guess is CO2 exchange. For some reason my ph is fluctuating. The alkalinity is at 8.3, ca and mg is normal but my ph is fluctuating. It’s mostly at approximately 8,65. I read up about how to rectify this, and the best advice seems to be aeration, so I added a airpump to the sump.

    Can anyone give me some advice please. I hate to lose fish...
     
  2. Guest




  3. tekkengal

    tekkengal Moderator

    Joined:
    30 Mar 2010
    Posts:
    3,505
    Likes Received:
    815
    Location:
    JHB
    Very sorry to hear about your losses :(

    Do you have any other livestock in the tank (corals/CUC etc)? If so, how are they faring in your tank?

    With regards to the clowns, did they display any symptoms (whitespot, heavy breathing etc)?
     
    Last edited: 11 Oct 2017
  4. OP
    Theo

    Theo

    Joined:
    11 Sep 2009
    Posts:
    255
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    Yantai, China
    I have a couple of corals, elegance anemone, BT anemone, zoas, hammer coral, torch and a magnifica, no fish, just 2 lonely cleaner shrimps. All the corals are doing great.

    While the fish was in quarantine they seemed perfect to me, all 4 of them.

    The fish I added also did not feed in the DT but were eating like pigs in the quarantine.
     
  5. viper357

    viper357 Admin MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    4 May 2007
    Posts:
    29,598
    Likes Received:
    1,308
    What do you mean by fluctuating if you say it's mostly at 8.65? It's normal for ph to fluctuate between night time and day time, how are you measuring the fluctuations? What are the upper and lower readings you are getting?
     
  6. NJH

    NJH

    Joined:
    25 May 2012
    Posts:
    1,817
    Likes Received:
    402
    Location:
    Helderkruin
    You state you quarantined the fish. Did you treat with any medication? How long after you placed them in your display did they die? Any symptoms before death?

    Did you acclimate them to your display water?
     
    Last edited: 11 Oct 2017
  7. r0ckf1re

    r0ckf1re

    Joined:
    23 Feb 2015
    Posts:
    2,903
    Likes Received:
    684
    Location:
    Sandton
    Why did you do a 100% water change. Wouldn't that be negative, if your parameters were good. Surely you removed some good elements as well and kicked of a new cycle, undoing what you had done. I am not sure, just curious.
     
  8. WLG

    WLG

    Joined:
    17 Aug 2017
    Posts:
    13
    Likes Received:
    2
    Your pH is to high, 8.3 is considered maximum for a reef tank. The pH is determined by the alkalinity and CO2 concentration in the water. Ammonia can easily cause havoc at such a pH. We measure total ammonia nitrogen which is the sum of NH4 and NH3. NH3 is a gas and is the toxic component. The higher the pH the more TAN will be in the form of NH3 and the safe level will thus be lower.
     
  9. OP
    Theo

    Theo

    Joined:
    11 Sep 2009
    Posts:
    255
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    Yantai, China
    @viper357 , I’m using a malwauke ph meter, which I calibtrate once a month or so. The high reading is 8,78 and low reading is 8.21. It fluctuates throughout the day, not specifically during night and day time. @NJH , I treated with cupramine, kept them in qt for a week after meds stopped, no symptoms prior, and all of them died about 2 days after I placed them in DT, did acclimate them with DT water. @r0ckf1re , the initial cycle with deadrock cause n massive burst of nh4, doing a 100% waterchange decrease that amount. No harm can be done by doing this as the bacteria is not in the water column, but in the rocks, substrate, zeolite ect.
     
    r0ckf1re likes this.
  10. OP
    Theo

    Theo

    Joined:
    11 Sep 2009
    Posts:
    255
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    Yantai, China
    @WLG , I use a salifert nh4/nh3 test kit, which states that there is no ammonia. Will the airpump I added help to drive out the CO2?
     
  11. WLG

    WLG

    Joined:
    17 Aug 2017
    Posts:
    13
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ammonia fluctuates through the day. If you are dosing amino acids (some of the zeo products) you will be causing a spike. Also ammonia normally spikes 1 hour after feeding your fish. Aerating the water will stabalize the pH but don't stabalize it at 8.8! Organisms function optimally within ranges, for corals and marine fish 7.8 to 8.3 is optimal. 8.8 will stress everything regardless of ammonia levels. At a pH of 9 half of the TAN will be NH3.
     
    irie ivan likes this.
  12. OP
    Theo

    Theo

    Joined:
    11 Sep 2009
    Posts:
    255
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    Yantai, China
    I retested the NH4, and the reading I got is undetectable. I slowly added some vinegar which brought it down to 8,4. Tested the alkalinity just now and it’s stable. Is there any way to find the cause of the high ph?
     
    Last edited: 11 Oct 2017
  13. hotdog83

    hotdog83 Clone Fish Moderator

    Joined:
    28 May 2008
    Posts:
    3,936
    Likes Received:
    1,161
    Location:
    Cresta, JHB
    What do you dose for alkalinity/calcium?
     
  14. hotdog83

    hotdog83 Clone Fish Moderator

    Joined:
    28 May 2008
    Posts:
    3,936
    Likes Received:
    1,161
    Location:
    Cresta, JHB
    And have you calibrated the pH probe inside the carx recently?
     
  15. NJH

    NJH

    Joined:
    25 May 2012
    Posts:
    1,817
    Likes Received:
    402
    Location:
    Helderkruin
    If ammonia was the problem it would have killed your shrimps and even your corals.

    What were the symptoms before the fish died?

    Did you quarentine the shrimp?
     
  16. NJH

    NJH

    Joined:
    25 May 2012
    Posts:
    1,817
    Likes Received:
    402
    Location:
    Helderkruin
    And did you quarantine the corals?
     
  17. NJH

    NJH

    Joined:
    25 May 2012
    Posts:
    1,817
    Likes Received:
    402
    Location:
    Helderkruin
    What are your alk and calcium levels?
     
  18. viper357

    viper357 Admin MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    4 May 2007
    Posts:
    29,598
    Likes Received:
    1,308
    Do you dose kalk?
     
  19. OP
    Theo

    Theo

    Joined:
    11 Sep 2009
    Posts:
    255
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    Yantai, China
    I use two little fishies reborn ca an zeovit mg. I have calibrated it last week, will recalibrate it tomorrow. I did not qt the shrimp or corals, corals only had a coralRx dip. I dont dose kalk, my topup is RO/DI water only. Alk is 8,3 and ca 430, mg 1300.
     
  20. NJH

    NJH

    Joined:
    25 May 2012
    Posts:
    1,817
    Likes Received:
    402
    Location:
    Helderkruin
    You have to qurantine everything wet as the coral and shrimp could introduce disease or parasites. What were the symptoms before the fish died?

    Are you sure your ph reading is correct? Perhaps test it again with for instance a salifert test kit to make sure.
     
    Last edited: 11 Oct 2017
  21. tekkengal

    tekkengal Moderator

    Joined:
    30 Mar 2010
    Posts:
    3,505
    Likes Received:
    815
    Location:
    JHB
    Time period between adding and death? Did they show any adverse symptoms apart from lack of appetite?
     

Recent Posts

Loading...
Similar Threads - Need advice Forum Date
Advanced Topic Advice needed on LED's Advanced Topics 10 Apr 2018
Scaping advice needed for 40 L x 30 B x 40 H Nano Aquascaping 18 Mar 2018
Advice needed on Aquaria AMW 102-what would you do? Nano Tank advice 17 Mar 2018
Flow advice needed Pumps and Waterflow 19 Jan 2018
Sump Filtration Advice needed General Discussions and Advice 6 Jan 2018
Urgent help needed Advice Needed: 1/4 bottle algae flakes dumped in tank Urgent Help Needed 21 Sep 2017
I need some advice on Led units Lighting 2 Sep 2017

Share This Page