Urgent help needed Need advice

Discussion in 'Urgent Help Needed' started by Theo, 11 Oct 2017.

  1. Theo

    Theo Shrimp

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    Good day all.

    I’ve set up a new reef a couple of months ago. The tank is a 600L tank. I’ve got a big skimmer, zeovit reactor- dosing zeostart, zeo bak and zeofood. I’ve got a calcium reactor containing ca and mg media , and I’m using a maxspect razor light.

    I am at my ends with this. I added 2 snowflake clowns which died, after that I added 2 blackice clowns which also died. Before adding the fish I quarantined them for 3 weeks and they were fine, and tested the DT water, all parameters where normal.

    Do you think my liverock can cause this? I bought the rock as deadrock, gave it a bath in muriatic acid and afterwards had it in a bucket for 24 hours with high flow on them, and added baking soda to neutralize the acid. I rinsed it 3 times after that. I started up the tank and let it cycle for 4 months, doing a 100% at month 2, I also added a couple of liverock I bought from a LFS to seed it. This is my first guess.

    My second guess is CO2 exchange. For some reason my ph is fluctuating. The alkalinity is at 8.3, ca and mg is normal but my ph is fluctuating. It’s mostly at approximately 8,65. I read up about how to rectify this, and the best advice seems to be aeration, so I added a airpump to the sump.

    Can anyone give me some advice please. I hate to lose fish...
     
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  3. tekkengal

    tekkengal Moderator

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    Very sorry to hear about your losses :(

    Do you have any other livestock in the tank (corals/CUC etc)? If so, how are they faring in your tank?

    With regards to the clowns, did they display any symptoms (whitespot, heavy breathing etc)?
     
    Last edited: 11 Oct 2017
  4. OP
    Theo

    Theo Shrimp

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    I have a couple of corals, elegance anemone, BT anemone, zoas, hammer coral, torch and a magnifica, no fish, just 2 lonely cleaner shrimps. All the corals are doing great.

    While the fish was in quarantine they seemed perfect to me, all 4 of them.

    The fish I added also did not feed in the DT but were eating like pigs in the quarantine.
     
  5. viper357

    viper357 Admin MASA Contributor

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    What do you mean by fluctuating if you say it's mostly at 8.65? It's normal for ph to fluctuate between night time and day time, how are you measuring the fluctuations? What are the upper and lower readings you are getting?
     
  6. NJH

    NJH Damsel

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    You state you quarantined the fish. Did you treat with any medication? How long after you placed them in your display did they die? Any symptoms before death?

    Did you acclimate them to your display water?
     
    Last edited: 11 Oct 2017
  7. r0ckf1re

    r0ckf1re Regal Tang

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    Why did you do a 100% water change. Wouldn't that be negative, if your parameters were good. Surely you removed some good elements as well and kicked of a new cycle, undoing what you had done. I am not sure, just curious.
     
  8. WLG

    WLG

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    Your pH is to high, 8.3 is considered maximum for a reef tank. The pH is determined by the alkalinity and CO2 concentration in the water. Ammonia can easily cause havoc at such a pH. We measure total ammonia nitrogen which is the sum of NH4 and NH3. NH3 is a gas and is the toxic component. The higher the pH the more TAN will be in the form of NH3 and the safe level will thus be lower.
     
  9. OP
    Theo

    Theo Shrimp

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    @viper357 , I’m using a malwauke ph meter, which I calibtrate once a month or so. The high reading is 8,78 and low reading is 8.21. It fluctuates throughout the day, not specifically during night and day time. @NJH , I treated with cupramine, kept them in qt for a week after meds stopped, no symptoms prior, and all of them died about 2 days after I placed them in DT, did acclimate them with DT water. @r0ckf1re , the initial cycle with deadrock cause n massive burst of nh4, doing a 100% waterchange decrease that amount. No harm can be done by doing this as the bacteria is not in the water column, but in the rocks, substrate, zeolite ect.
     
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  10. OP
    Theo

    Theo Shrimp

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    @WLG , I use a salifert nh4/nh3 test kit, which states that there is no ammonia. Will the airpump I added help to drive out the CO2?
     
  11. WLG

    WLG

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    Ammonia fluctuates through the day. If you are dosing amino acids (some of the zeo products) you will be causing a spike. Also ammonia normally spikes 1 hour after feeding your fish. Aerating the water will stabalize the pH but don't stabalize it at 8.8! Organisms function optimally within ranges, for corals and marine fish 7.8 to 8.3 is optimal. 8.8 will stress everything regardless of ammonia levels. At a pH of 9 half of the TAN will be NH3.
     
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  12. OP
    Theo

    Theo Shrimp

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    I retested the NH4, and the reading I got is undetectable. I slowly added some vinegar which brought it down to 8,4. Tested the alkalinity just now and it’s stable. Is there any way to find the cause of the high ph?
     
    Last edited: 11 Oct 2017
  13. hotdog83

    hotdog83 Clone Fish Moderator

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    What do you dose for alkalinity/calcium?
     
  14. hotdog83

    hotdog83 Clone Fish Moderator

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    And have you calibrated the pH probe inside the carx recently?
     
  15. NJH

    NJH Damsel

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    If ammonia was the problem it would have killed your shrimps and even your corals.

    What were the symptoms before the fish died?

    Did you quarentine the shrimp?
     
  16. NJH

    NJH Damsel

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    And did you quarantine the corals?
     
  17. NJH

    NJH Damsel

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    What are your alk and calcium levels?
     
  18. viper357

    viper357 Admin MASA Contributor

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    Do you dose kalk?
     
  19. OP
    Theo

    Theo Shrimp

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    I use two little fishies reborn ca an zeovit mg. I have calibrated it last week, will recalibrate it tomorrow. I did not qt the shrimp or corals, corals only had a coralRx dip. I dont dose kalk, my topup is RO/DI water only. Alk is 8,3 and ca 430, mg 1300.
     
  20. NJH

    NJH Damsel

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    You have to qurantine everything wet as the coral and shrimp could introduce disease or parasites. What were the symptoms before the fish died?

    Are you sure your ph reading is correct? Perhaps test it again with for instance a salifert test kit to make sure.
     
    Last edited: 11 Oct 2017
  21. tekkengal

    tekkengal Moderator

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    Time period between adding and death? Did they show any adverse symptoms apart from lack of appetite?
     

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