My Tank Rebuild
- Thread starter PeterL
- Start date
I have heard about bio-balls being good on an fresh build because a DSB takes a few months to really kick in where as bio-balls not so much. Also the point of running your system for a few weeks is lso to allow time for your filter system to start on the road to it's process. The thing is bio-balls is said to increase nitrates so as much as it filters, it also re-inserts the nitrates - hence the reason I have Chaeto in both compartments of my split DSB. I want to get the nitrates from my DT and also the bit which is given off from the bio-balls.
My system is still new (going only 3 months now) and my nitrates are not climbing so I am surely doing something right.
My system is still new (going only 3 months now) and my nitrates are not climbing so I am surely doing something right.
Hi Tremayn - the thing with bio-balls, is that they are great media for the basic denitrification cycle, up until the nitrate stage. Bio-balls tend to accummulate a lot of detritus, and also tend to cause very high nitrate levels, once the aquarist's tank becomes stocked with fish.
Once these nitrate levels are so high, due to the bio-balls, it is difficult to get the nitrate levels down again.
Then you will HAVE to remove the bio-balls, in any case!
Better to start off without the bio-balls! Rather just dose bacteria into the tank, once per week, if you want to ensure that the biological filtration is sorted!
You cannot hurry up mother nature..... please remember that!
Great thread.
It is a UP 2000/1 - 2000L/hr, 3m head with pinwheel impeller.
I find it runs like a bomb, no problems at all so far.
I find it runs like a bomb, no problems at all so far.
Peter - that's the exact same 2 pumps that I have on my Bubble Magus BM-260. Only problem that I have with these pumps - once the impellers break - you have a problem replacing the impellers. No-one keeps stock of these!
im running an aqua medic 2500lh pump but the skimmer cup doesnt seem to be filling up with bubbles not even from the very bottom of the funnel.. not getting enuf bubbles
.
took a look at in now and i see some tiny bubbles leaking out from the intake of the pump, is that bad?
.took a look at in now and i see some tiny bubbles leaking out from the intake of the pump, is that bad?
im running an aqua medic 2500lh pump but the skimmer cup doesnt seem to be filling up with bubbles not even from the very bottom of the funnel.. not getting enuf bubbles
took a look at in now and i see some tiny bubbles leaking out from the intake of the pump, is that bad?
Lift the pump up a little. If it is submerged too deep it battles to draw air.
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I guess it is time for an update, the past 2,5months have been nothing but bliss...I have enjoyed my small coral reef without losing any interest, things always keep developing and growing and sprouting to maintain interest. I have had the pleasure of struggeling through the basics of learning how to maintian life in a marine aquarium and am sustaining good life now. So much enjoyment in fact that I have a stylish sleeper couch planted in front of the tank from which I have sat mesmorised by the ongoings of the mini-reef in my home...
I am going on 6 months and am yet to lose a single coral or fish due to water impurities or imbalance. Sure, I have had my fair share of beginner/newbie hassles, had a fish chomping corals and had to remove it before it destroyed things - but nothing which from all the reading on MASA can I gather is out of the ordinary as far as begining to develop an established tank.
I have had my share of stresses, winter kicked in and my heaters weren't keeping the temp up but I only realised this after I installed a new thermometer, I had been running 3 deg below "normal" - fast tracked another heater into the sytem. A few hours of power failure - water temps dropping around to 15deg. Whitespot development on some fish yet come and gone within 3 days - still makes me wonder what miracle cure sorted that out so fast. Cyano tried to take over the whole place, smothering some of my corals completely, they soon recovered and are now growing well. However with all of these challenges, I didn't lose a single life in my tank and am going to maintain what I have been doing because all the life in my tank is doing well.
Basic and very obvious husbandary and my slice of nature is living in a glass box, is a higher power looking out for me and knows my true desire to maintain and succeed in keeping things alive? Who knows, but I would like to believe he is keep an eye out for me.
I will update with some pics in the near future.
All of my success wouldn't be if it weren't for a few people who stepped up right at the begining of my world into marines. Nemos Janitor - went what one could call beyond the call of duty, he has taught me a great deal of what I know. Dallas - offered words of wisom which can only be achived in years of experience, much appreciation. Jaco Schoeman - advise has come from a very detailed understanding perspective and taught me how to gain the right knowledge in the right manner for the right things. NeilH - saved my newbie butt when I needed help and no one was around, he was online to offer top class advice and it was at some crazy hour of the night. Jacquesb - never really had much interaction until one day he saw me doing something stupid, sort of quietly watching and stepped in to help me back onto my stumbling feet to save certain failures.
I can't name all the people who have helped me over the time since I started, I just felt a special thanks/credit is due to those people who I have mentioned above. Without them I guess I would have struggled and found my feet, but I am 100% certain that I would have suffered many fatalities withing my reef aquarium if it wasn't for them. Thank you all, I owe my current marine aquarium success to your advice, time, wisdom, patience, unselfishness and willingness to assist me...
I am going on 6 months and am yet to lose a single coral or fish due to water impurities or imbalance. Sure, I have had my fair share of beginner/newbie hassles, had a fish chomping corals and had to remove it before it destroyed things - but nothing which from all the reading on MASA can I gather is out of the ordinary as far as begining to develop an established tank.
I have had my share of stresses, winter kicked in and my heaters weren't keeping the temp up but I only realised this after I installed a new thermometer, I had been running 3 deg below "normal" - fast tracked another heater into the sytem. A few hours of power failure - water temps dropping around to 15deg. Whitespot development on some fish yet come and gone within 3 days - still makes me wonder what miracle cure sorted that out so fast. Cyano tried to take over the whole place, smothering some of my corals completely, they soon recovered and are now growing well. However with all of these challenges, I didn't lose a single life in my tank and am going to maintain what I have been doing because all the life in my tank is doing well.
Basic and very obvious husbandary and my slice of nature is living in a glass box, is a higher power looking out for me and knows my true desire to maintain and succeed in keeping things alive? Who knows, but I would like to believe he is keep an eye out for me.
I will update with some pics in the near future.
All of my success wouldn't be if it weren't for a few people who stepped up right at the begining of my world into marines. Nemos Janitor - went what one could call beyond the call of duty, he has taught me a great deal of what I know. Dallas - offered words of wisom which can only be achived in years of experience, much appreciation. Jaco Schoeman - advise has come from a very detailed understanding perspective and taught me how to gain the right knowledge in the right manner for the right things. NeilH - saved my newbie butt when I needed help and no one was around, he was online to offer top class advice and it was at some crazy hour of the night. Jacquesb - never really had much interaction until one day he saw me doing something stupid, sort of quietly watching and stepped in to help me back onto my stumbling feet to save certain failures.
I can't name all the people who have helped me over the time since I started, I just felt a special thanks/credit is due to those people who I have mentioned above. Without them I guess I would have struggled and found my feet, but I am 100% certain that I would have suffered many fatalities withing my reef aquarium if it wasn't for them. Thank you all, I owe my current marine aquarium success to your advice, time, wisdom, patience, unselfishness and willingness to assist me...
Well done for keeping your hands on things and not loosing interest!!
And at a place like this (MASA), its only a mater of time before you make great friends who are worlds apart but all share the same great passion for reef keeping!
And at a place like this (MASA), its only a mater of time before you make great friends who are worlds apart but all share the same great passion for reef keeping!
Great thread and congrats on the new tank. 6months with no major mishaps isn't an easy task!
I do have a few questions.
It was mentioned earlier that the skimmer should be before the DSB. Why is this? Skimmers are very efficient and improve water quality significantly in a single pass. They reduce ammonia (primarily) and suspended particulates. The DSB however is far more inefficient and would require multiple passes to show an obvious improvement of water quality, which would come in the form of reduced nitrates (NO3) so would the DSB not benefit from being before the skimmer? To my knowledge pretty much all the DSB does is create an area for anaerobic bacteria (heterotrophs) to reduce nitrate to gaseous nitrogen. Without a DSB or the anaerobic area in live rock, nitrates (NO3) can only be exported by water changes, harvesting algae or chemical adsorbents.
Bioballs on the other hand, especially in the setup that you have them (trickle filter) house aerobic bacteria (nitrosomanes, ect) which break down ammonia to nitrates. Which is fine for a fish only tank but corals are extremely sensitive to high NO3. Trickle filters end up adding NO3 more efficiently than removing NH4 which is why I think they would be good in a new coral system which is still conditioning with live rock. But could be disadvantageous in a settled coral tank.
Live rock (about 90% of my filtration system) isn't as efficient as traditional biofilters which is why you need so much of it (at least 1kg for every 10 l of water. more is better). But it performs all tasks of nitrification and denitrification.
I do have a few questions.
It was mentioned earlier that the skimmer should be before the DSB. Why is this? Skimmers are very efficient and improve water quality significantly in a single pass. They reduce ammonia (primarily) and suspended particulates. The DSB however is far more inefficient and would require multiple passes to show an obvious improvement of water quality, which would come in the form of reduced nitrates (NO3) so would the DSB not benefit from being before the skimmer? To my knowledge pretty much all the DSB does is create an area for anaerobic bacteria (heterotrophs) to reduce nitrate to gaseous nitrogen. Without a DSB or the anaerobic area in live rock, nitrates (NO3) can only be exported by water changes, harvesting algae or chemical adsorbents.
Bioballs on the other hand, especially in the setup that you have them (trickle filter) house aerobic bacteria (nitrosomanes, ect) which break down ammonia to nitrates. Which is fine for a fish only tank but corals are extremely sensitive to high NO3. Trickle filters end up adding NO3 more efficiently than removing NH4 which is why I think they would be good in a new coral system which is still conditioning with live rock. But could be disadvantageous in a settled coral tank.
Live rock (about 90% of my filtration system) isn't as efficient as traditional biofilters which is why you need so much of it (at least 1kg for every 10 l of water. more is better). But it performs all tasks of nitrification and denitrification.
I have my skimmer installed upstream to my DSB based on it being a remover of suspended solids and other waste product, if you want to look at it like that, you could almost call it a strainer, although it isn't quite. The DSB is is just that, a DSB and not a refugium. The depth of sand provides for cultivation of both aerobic and anerobic bacteria in the same surface area however this happens at various depths within the sand.
The question here is, why would you want to litter the surface of your DSB with solid waste and potentially blocking the surface of the sand from allowing water flow - that would render the DSB competely ineffective and then just apile of sand in a tank. To assist with the nitrate I also have Chaetomaphora and all in all, as said above, I am yet to lose a fish or coral from bad water conditions...Based on that, I have done something right and nowhere in my tank (corals, fish, inverts etc) is anything showing any signs of poor water parameters. So from that perspective, I am not about to try fix what isn't faulty - it is fixed already.
The question here is, why would you want to litter the surface of your DSB with solid waste and potentially blocking the surface of the sand from allowing water flow - that would render the DSB competely ineffective and then just apile of sand in a tank. To assist with the nitrate I also have Chaetomaphora and all in all, as said above, I am yet to lose a fish or coral from bad water conditions...Based on that, I have done something right and nowhere in my tank (corals, fish, inverts etc) is anything showing any signs of poor water parameters. So from that perspective, I am not about to try fix what isn't faulty - it is fixed already.
Wasn't suggesting fixed it. Merely asked why because it's obvious you have done something right.
I do see that point of the skimmer acting as a "strainer" and how it would help in saving your DSB from particulates. I use other methods but may just do this too. I was thinking that maybe the DSB could benefit from the bad water which you might be removing via the skimmer. Chaetomorpha, I have not yet tried but am looking for some. I say dont use trickle filters in a coral system but I do. It's completely submerged but aerated, so does the same thing, and is directly followed by crushed LR (5cm3 pieces) and then the DSB. I am paranoid about high nitrates because there have been several unexplained spikes in a different system that have caused havoc on my corals. Fish have tolerated it tho.
What are your flow rates/system turnover per hour? If its quite high maybe its the extra flow over the DSB that is controlling NO3, otherwise maybe Chaetomorpha is more efficient than I thought, in which case I definitely need some!!
Ash
I do see that point of the skimmer acting as a "strainer" and how it would help in saving your DSB from particulates. I use other methods but may just do this too. I was thinking that maybe the DSB could benefit from the bad water which you might be removing via the skimmer. Chaetomorpha, I have not yet tried but am looking for some. I say dont use trickle filters in a coral system but I do. It's completely submerged but aerated, so does the same thing, and is directly followed by crushed LR (5cm3 pieces) and then the DSB. I am paranoid about high nitrates because there have been several unexplained spikes in a different system that have caused havoc on my corals. Fish have tolerated it tho.
What are your flow rates/system turnover per hour? If its quite high maybe its the extra flow over the DSB that is controlling NO3, otherwise maybe Chaetomorpha is more efficient than I thought, in which case I definitely need some!!
Ash
Welcome back .... where've you been lost buddy .... working overtime and thinking of how you gonna setup the next "big one"
@ Chika - Thanks bud, I have been busy with all sorts of things which have kept me away from MASA. Also found that the time spent on MASA consumed a great deal of time I could have been with my family. One doesn't really realise it but 4 or 5 hours online discussing certain matters can pass very quickly, do that every day and you find yourself caught up between work and MASA and the tank and no time is given tot he family. I am working on finding the balance.
@ Ash - without an accurate flow meter I can only guess. I have an oldish 2000L/hr pump capable of a 2m head, I am lifting up about 1,5m so actual flow into the tank which then governs the turn over rate is maybe dropped it down to about 1500-1800L/hr. The slower the water flows across the DSB and also "suspended time" around the skimmer, the better the filtration system works. For all I know, my flow rates are a little higher but I would like to slow the system down a little at some point at see if an even slower flow rate across the DSB and skimmer assists things at all or makes no difference to my corals.
The Chaeto definately makes a difference, I see it in my corals. When I harvested it I chopped a massive chunk out leaving a small ball about the size of my fist, I noticed the corals were OK and opening up but seemed a lot more hesitant. The Chaeto has since grown back and I wouldn't say ready for harvesting but a decent size again and my corals are all looking much happier. That is the only thing which was different so it had to be contributed to the presence of it.
You will find that as the system stabalises as mine is/has, the Chaeto doesn't burst or thrive as it otherwise would, this is because it relies on the impurities, as your nitrate levels decrease, so does the growth rate of the Chaeto - obviously because it isn't getting as much for it's growth.
Everything in your system tells you a story of how things are doing, Chaeto which is moderately OK suggests my Nitrate levels are way down. Not gone, just low - which to have low Nitrate readings is what we aim for. It isn't the "wonder pill" or be all and end oll, there are so many veriations of products and different things one can to within filtration, I have just found it to be something which works for my system.
@ Ash - without an accurate flow meter I can only guess. I have an oldish 2000L/hr pump capable of a 2m head, I am lifting up about 1,5m so actual flow into the tank which then governs the turn over rate is maybe dropped it down to about 1500-1800L/hr. The slower the water flows across the DSB and also "suspended time" around the skimmer, the better the filtration system works. For all I know, my flow rates are a little higher but I would like to slow the system down a little at some point at see if an even slower flow rate across the DSB and skimmer assists things at all or makes no difference to my corals.
The Chaeto definately makes a difference, I see it in my corals. When I harvested it I chopped a massive chunk out leaving a small ball about the size of my fist, I noticed the corals were OK and opening up but seemed a lot more hesitant. The Chaeto has since grown back and I wouldn't say ready for harvesting but a decent size again and my corals are all looking much happier. That is the only thing which was different so it had to be contributed to the presence of it.
You will find that as the system stabalises as mine is/has, the Chaeto doesn't burst or thrive as it otherwise would, this is because it relies on the impurities, as your nitrate levels decrease, so does the growth rate of the Chaeto - obviously because it isn't getting as much for it's growth.
Everything in your system tells you a story of how things are doing, Chaeto which is moderately OK suggests my Nitrate levels are way down. Not gone, just low - which to have low Nitrate readings is what we aim for. It isn't the "wonder pill" or be all and end oll, there are so many veriations of products and different things one can to within filtration, I have just found it to be something which works for my system.
