My tank of Death

Discussion in 'Quarantine Tanks, sick fish, QT corals' started by Darren24, 7 Jan 2014.

  1. Darren24

    Darren24

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    Hi Guys and Girls,

    Need some help, I purchases a used 500 lt (full system including sump) in July 2013. I decided that I wanted to start fresh so I took the fish and corals out and returned them to the LFS.

    The setup,

    1. Got aragonite from my father, it was dried out had not been used for about 2 years
    2. Same thing with the live rock, I also dried out some of the live rock that came with the tank in the sun for 2 weeks.
    3. Put it all in the tank and filled it. I cycled the tank for 6 weeks.

    I am running a custom made lighting system with 4 x T5 lights and 2 x MH. A skimmer that is rated for a 1000 lt tank. A temp controller with 1 x 300 watt heater and a chiller unit the temp is set between 25 – 27 degrees.

    After 6 weeks I took in a water sample and the parameters were pretty spot on, I purchase 2 x African clowns & 1 x firefish. Within 48 hours they were dead. At this stage I was pretty new to the game and did not have a quarantine system.

    I lost a number of fish after that all dead within 48 hours. 13 to be exact. It looks exactly like Ich.

    I was told to drop the salinity to 1.015, heat the tank to 38 degrees or more and covered it so that it was in complete darkness for 7 days. So I did this. Purchased a firefish and a sixline wrasse put them in quarantine for 2 weeks treating with Pharaguard and all was hundreds. Got the parameters correct, cycled it for another 2 weeks put the fish in and death came again.

    I then treated the tank for 10 days with Waterlife that treats Gill & Body Flukes.

    I decided stuff the purchased fish I’m going to catch some and try my luck, over 2 weeks caught a couple of wrasse a striates.

    All has been going well until bang white spot again.

    I take water samples to the LFS every week and the parameters are always acceptable i really do not think that it is a water quality issued. But then again i only have a grand total of 7 months experience.

    I honestly don’t know what else to do, the only thing that I can think of now is the fact that my tank is set up about 2 feet from my front door. There is not a lot of foot traffic but does get a bit of wind on the tank as the front door is often left open. It also gets a little afternoon sun.

    Please can someone help, I am now soaking their food in Seachem Garlic Guard. I have corals in the tank, Zoas, torch, frog spawn and mushrooms in the tank so dosing with copper is not really something that I want to do.

    Any advice is greatly appreciated, Thanks in advance.
     
    Last edited: 7 Jan 2014
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  3. mandarinman

    mandarinman

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    Take all fish out and leave tank fishless for three months. Focus on corals for that time. In the meantime any fish you get should be quarintined for a couple of weeks at least before placing into tank. To make sure they are healthy and are eating
     
  4. Ml.RIDWAN

    Ml.RIDWAN

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    Imo remove the corals and treat with copper run it a few weeks skimm out the copper and start again 2 fish at a time
     
  5. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    That would kill off all forms of bacteria amongst everything else. That should have put the tank into a crash situation, with elevated ammonia levels. If within a week after doing that, the LFS said your parameters were fine. I doubt that. Only filtration that could still do something was your skimmer. That action should have resulted in another 6 weeks. Unless you used some bacterial dosing, there is no way that the tank would be right within 2 weeks.
     
  6. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    and what about the copper that bound to the rock?

    did you wash the aragonite before using it?
    same to the rock, did you rinse it at least before using them?
     
  7. Darren24

    Darren24 Thread Starter

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    Thanks guys, yes i washed the sand and rock a number of times in RO water. will post a couple of pics taken on monday.
     
  8. Darren24

    Darren24 Thread Starter

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]





    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  9. mandarinman

    mandarinman

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    Not good advice. Do not do this
     
  10. Darren24

    Darren24 Thread Starter

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    it has been about 5 weeks now from the time i heated the tank and dropped the salinity.
     
  11. mandarinman

    mandarinman

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    That was starting over. Three months of no fish dude
     
  12. Ml.RIDWAN

    Ml.RIDWAN

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    In my experience when it comes to Ws its either save the fish or save the corals. And copper is proven to eliminate Ws as far as i kno it takes like 6 weeks to cure the tank. If some is still left there after its not much so hardly any harm. Its a new tank looks like its sitting dormant in the substrate or rock waiting to attack. All stuff was dry so not much to loose.
     
  13. Darren24

    Darren24 Thread Starter

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    Thanks mandarinman, Riaanp do you agree with this. is this my best way forward.
    will the wind on the tank not affect it?
     
  14. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    What are the tanks exact parameters?
    Raising temp that high and dropping salinity is not a good idea.
    Are you sure the fish had white spot? Before treating anything we need to get a proper diagnosis and I don't thing ws would kill fish that quickly.
     
  15. Darren24

    Darren24 Thread Starter

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    I have been thinking along the lines of taking the corals out. Running a fish only system for like 3-6 months whilst dosing with copper and copper meds. Whilst stocking all of the fish that I want. Once happy with the fish stock start adding corals. That way I should not introduce diseases into the tank when adding corals. We'll it should reduce the risk anyway.
     
  16. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Rather leave your tank fish free. Treat fish in a proper qt system before adding them. Adding any meds to a display tank isn't good as the rocks can absorb the meds and leach them at a later stage. Corals and othe inverts are very susceptible to chemicals
     
  17. Darren24

    Darren24 Thread Starter

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    When I had it tested on Sunday afternoon the parameters where as follows,

    Ammonia - 0
    nitrates - 2
    Nitrites - 0
    Kh - 6
    Ph - 8.3
    Salinity -.023
     
  18. Darren24

    Darren24 Thread Starter

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    It looks like ws. You always land up second guessing yourself. My father has been doing this for a while but fish only systems he also seems pretty sure that it is ws. When comparing it to pics on the net it looks identical
     
  19. Darren24

    Darren24 Thread Starter

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    Oh. I have also been running my lights for only 6 hours a day. To try slow down algae growth
     
  20. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Whatever you do, don't treat fish in your tank
    Can you post a pic of the sick fish?
     
    Last edited: 7 Jan 2014
  21. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    [​IMG]

    Copper has been proven to be effective during the free swimming stage of whitespot.
    Look at the picture. You are targeting a timeframe of 24 to 48 hours. Actually less, if the whitespot finds a host within an hour of hatching, it will infect the fish, not hang around for another 23 hours.

    [FONT=&quot]Theronts, the free swimming infectious stage, is treatable by copper and other chemicals. Although the dosage must be perfect to be effective. Note the time period of Theronts, it is a very short period. A couple of hours to be able to fight the WS before they find a host. And the hatching normally happens before sunrise, while you are still sleeping. And they can hatch any day, also not all together on the same day. There is no way that you can predict exactly which morning they will hatch.

    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Copper is a highly effective medication against WS when dosed and maintained in the proper concentration. However it has a narrow range of effectiveness and levels must be monitored at least daily. At too low a dosage, it is ineffective. At too high a dosage, it could kill all your fish. Copper is also known to be immunosuppressive, resulting that the fish becomes more susceptible to secondary infections. Invertebrates are extremely sensitive to copper and cannot be housed in a tank undergoing this treatment. So no hermits, shrimps, copepods or micro bristle stars. Lastly, copper cannot be used in the presence of any calcareous media. Live rock, sand, crushed coral, and dead coral skeletons will all adsorb copper, rendering it useless a treatment. Best is to use a dedicated second tank as quarantine hospital. Copper only targets the free swimming infectious Theronts stage. They hatch at night and it is such a small window of opportunity where this treatment can be successful. My personal opinion is that it is a waste of time.

    Whitespot: Know your enemy - Marine Aquariums South Africa

    As pointed out in that thread, copper is very effective. IF you know what you do, have a dedicated hospital tank where nothing can bound with the copper and thereby reduce its concentration.

    If you really want to get rid of whitespot, first understand their life cycle

    [/FONT]
     
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