My Sump Design

Discussion in 'Beginner Discussions' started by dutchdog, 21 Feb 2012.

  1. dutchdog

    dutchdog

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    I made some designs based on research I found on the web. I saw plexiglass sumps are easier to work the material (teethed baffles). Not sure if that can be done on glass as well.

    Anyway, I made two designs, reasonably similar. The main difference is that the second one has the pump in different location to reduce microbubbles. The water flows under the refugium all the way to other side.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Are these ideas any good and which one is better and why? The first design is a direct copy of a plexiglass sump I saw online, model F sump, from

    Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums

    The design works on two intakes, where 75% raw goes to skimmer and 25% to refugium to feed the macro algea there. It then recirculates via valves. It either works on 1 overflow from tank (with T piped in) or two overflows in the main tank.
     
    Last edited: 21 Feb 2012
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  3. Zombie_CT

    Zombie_CT

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    If you are running a DSB ( the brown) area, then the design would not work.
    You will have water disturbing and disrupting the sand to much.
     
  4. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    the second one is just a complicated version of the first one.

    Also in both designs, the IN line on the DSB must be a overflow type, not blowing out the bottom. Can be a tube, no problem, even 110mm PVC pipe with female end cap standing in the DSB. just going to be a bit difficult to clean that out.
     
  5. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    And before you continue, first find out the price of plexiglass or perspex. There is a reason why we in South Africa do not use it.
     
  6. Jeann1

    Jeann1

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    Depends on who you know :p ..

    I cant see the pics, but keep it simple. The simpler it is, the simpler to work on it
     
  7. dutchdog

    dutchdog Thread Starter

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    Ill PM you shortly to see if plexiglass is feasible compared to glass Jeann1. There are a few advantages over plexiglass. At this stage I am even considering stainless steel sump or other materials to build from..

    I changed the design to a final design. A 3d version will follow when I get google sketch-up under control.

    [​IMG]

    Design based on maximum refugium area and return pump far away from skimmer to reduce microbubbles as the water has to travel further. The refugium overflows back into the skimmer area and has its own 25% inlet from main tank and inlet from return pump as well with valve (can be closed opened at will.) A full 360 flow in a cirkel is going in this tank.design.
     
    Last edited: 22 Feb 2012
  8. Rory

    Rory Admin MASA Contributor

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    My old sump was similar to the your design 2. The baffles aren't really required though.
    [​IMG]

    On an older tank I had sumps more like your latest design. The first one didn't really work because the flow was just too hectic that it was too fast for a DSB. I then redid it and it was ok but the small compartments still made it a pain to work with.

    With the above design the flow to the dsb is on a seperate pump so it can be controlled/adjusted independently. There was also a bit of a cryptic zone underneath it.
     
  9. dutchdog

    dutchdog Thread Starter

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    That makes me smile. :thumbup:

    So not bad for a newbie then.

    I like the latest design best to be honest. Its the least amount of glass, baffles and the biggest space for DSB/refugium without being complicated. The flow in that one makes perfect sense. The cryptic zone will just be to hard to clean. Let me see if I can get away with bubbletrap since return pump is 4 foot away? I also might leave the return pump inlet on the DSB as one wants nutrient raw water in there. Not sure why some designs show return pump back into DSB combined with a overflow inlet. Maybe someone knows why they do it like that.

    In your experience, which design are u running currently and which one u liked best of all?
     
    Last edited: 22 Feb 2012
  10. dutchdog

    dutchdog Thread Starter

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    [​IMG]

    Ok, made better drawing. At first I had only DSB. Took up lot of volume (height of sand), so opted for a seperate macro algea area and then a DSB (where coral or so can heal.)

    This gave me nice figures in volume. At first I had the DSB empty out on tall side into skimmer area, but I tought that doesnt make sense as one wants to keep most of the good stuff and not skim that again.
    so outlet on side after the baffles.

    Let me know what u guys think. I calculated everything and should have 100L macro algea and DSB volume together (that is including a 10cm sandbed.) without it, it goes to 150L total volume of the refugium area.

    So refugium volume must be 10% of main tank so this design based on a standard 4 footer (250L) should work up to a 1000L tank.

    3d image to follow. Please comment away.
     
  11. dutchdog

    dutchdog Thread Starter

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    I realized that I am going to complicated. Also plumbing is not nice and which area of the sump you see and to work with it. I also wasted volume on the side where the pump sat. So came up with a simplified version. Inlet 1 side, outlet other side, maximum DSB and Macro Algea volume area.

    Only question would be, would one want a large sandbed area or a large macro algea area or similar volumes of both?

    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/408/sumpdesignz2.png/

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: 23 Feb 2012
  12. dutchdog

    dutchdog Thread Starter

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    Last edited: 23 Feb 2012
  13. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Why are you putting in toothed baffles?

    You might want to consider making the return chamber larger so that you can put in some carbon/phospahte remover/etc in the future.
     
  14. Rory

    Rory Admin MASA Contributor

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    Also not sure why you want toothed baffles... A piece of plastic mesh works better and is a lot easier to install/clean/replace. I just had one on the tank overflow and it seemed to work fine. As for me I'm not currently running anything except a bathwater tank but I actually still have that sump.

    For macro algae you really don't need a large area. If you're using chaetomorpha you only really need about a baseball sized amount and it can go in with your dsb.
     
  15. dutchdog

    dutchdog Thread Starter

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    I decided to run a skimmer-less sump. Full tank will be used as DSB , plants and macro algea with mangrooves.

    I read on it and people have run this with success. It greatly reduces complication, maintanance and sound. A skimmer also removes valuable nutrients.

    That will be the experiment, if I can get it right just like that. Do petshops stock mangrooves?
     
  16. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    why do we buy skimmers if its not needed. Is it just because everybody does it? Or is there actually a benefit in a skimmer.

    Just built your sump with space for a skimmer. So at least one day you can still get it in there.
     
  17. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    If you new to marines, i would advise against experimenting. Rather set up a basic system to learn the ropes and experiment later.
    Youll find any info on the net that justifies what you want, but that doesnt mean it will be right for you.
    Rather decide what livestock you want to keep, how much money you want to spend and how much time you willing to dedicate tothe hobby. Then well help you come up with the best system to suit your needs.
     
  18. dutchdog

    dutchdog Thread Starter

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    That is a very good question.

    I think the only person that can answer that is a person who actualy has run a successfull tank without a skimmer.
     
    Last edited: 23 Feb 2012
  19. Express Reef

    Express Reef

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    :lol:
     
  20. belindamotion

    belindamotion Google Master

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    In South Africa mangroves are a protected species and thus illegal to own/trade/collect etc without the correct permits....
    Mangroves for the Marine Aquarium by Anthony Calfo - Reefkeeping.com ...Some info on Mangroves for you...:)

    Mangrove Plant Suppliers - Marine Aquariums of South Africa

    Who has kept Mangroves - Marine Aquariums of South Africa
     
    Last edited: 23 Feb 2012
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  21. Rory

    Rory Admin MASA Contributor

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    That is ok. You can run it skimmerless if you want but you will have to keep that in mind and not try and stock the tank like someone who has a skimmer would stock it. I think you will inevitably end up wanting "more" and you're going to have to get a skimmer.
     
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