Method/Process/Product works for me but not for you...

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by dallasg, 11 Sep 2013.

  1. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    ok so this has been on my mind a while... not sure what thread title would be best but lets debate....

    so often i have seen people, including myself, say that Method/Process/Product works for me etc then some say it doesnt for them, surely products are tested and retested and tried on a myriad of tanks before launched etc, so saying it didnt work for me etc is a load of :censored:??? surely we are to blame?

    for example, ZeoVit, there are many tanks that run it and all look great, so i tried it, worked in the beginning then i got lazy doing all the dosing etc and tank looked drab so then i found bio-cubes, so it wasnt that zeovit didnt work its just that i was lazy, there i said it...

    your views?
     
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  3. Express Reef

    Express Reef

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    DSB did not work for me and I found Bio Cubes and It works for me :)
     
    Last edited: 11 Sep 2013
  4. Monti

    Monti

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    Well zeovit wont work for you (and I dont mean you dallas, I mean any reefer) if you lazy- the guidelines are pretty clear on whats required of you..

    Its not really fair to say it doesnt suit you- maybe better to say you dont suit it.

    I think thats a principle that applies to many approaches in the hobby.
     
  5. Bendor

    Bendor

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    If the product "chainsaw for instance" is not used according to the pamplet you cannot blame the product when you lose your arm. Please see instructions after you have stopped the bleeding.
     
  6. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    thats exactly what i am looking for...
    its not like the laws of physics change from house to house....

    just something i have noticed, but 100% right, its whether we have the commitment for the chosen method...

    when i did zeovit it was fine, until work took more time etc then you miss a dose etc and well thats that
     
  7. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Does the product fit into your lifestyle and or husbandry routine?

    If it does not. Then it will not work.

    If you are a builder, then a Ferrari will not work for you. Same for a farmer. But if your name is Michael Schumacher then a a 4X4 is useless.
     
  8. Evo R

    Evo R

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    This thread to me boils down to two things, Firstly many reefers new and old are looking for quick fixes. EG ( I want to start another tank...and don't want to wait the 4 week cycle, ahhh lets try zeovit because they proofed that you can have a fully stocked full sps system in 14 days!!) Not that it can't be done...but you have to follow their instructions to the letter!! Or you have high phos, then you add purigen and after a day or two you add Chemi pure because the purigen is not ridding you overnight of you high phos or GHA ect. in 2 weeks time you sit with 3 different phos removers and nothing is working. Bad products......nope bad product UNDERSTANDING from the reefer!



    Secondary is Husbandry Diligence!

    Once again lets use the Zeovit EG.... its been proven to work, just got to follow the instructions to the letter. Same with Chemi Pure Elite....works like a bomb.......but is pretty much useless after 2 months. That's why the manufacturers have printed instructions on the back, " Replace with new media after 4 to 6 weeks" !!! So if I have high phos after 3 months again, is it a bad non working product??? NO its me as reefers faulty because if I read AND UNDERSTOOD the instructions I would have replace/changed the old media for new "fresh" media.

    Hope this makes sense.

    And no im not against zeovit....... im just too lazy, therefore it will not work for me.
     
  9. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    @Evo R great reply, i agree... just want to make this point clear as we can see a pattern forming, but you nailed it on the head
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  10. Evo R

    Evo R

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    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  11. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    99.99999999% of the problem can be found in the mirror :)
     
  12. Lord_Blackadder

    Lord_Blackadder

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    I frequently question the effectiveness of MANY products that people regularly use. The main culprits are bacterial supplements, "natural" disease treatments and trace elements. It's often very difficult to measure how much a product is actually doing. A lot of reported success with some of the more dodgy products can be put down to regression towards the mean. Wikipedia explains it rather well:

    When his pain got worse, he went to a doctor, after which the pain subsided a little. Therefore, he benefited from the doctor's treatment.
    The pain subsiding a little after it has gotten worse is more easily explained by regression towards the mean. Assuming the pain relief was caused by the doctor is fallacious.
    The student did exceptionally poorly last semester, so I punished him. He did much better this semester. Clearly, punishment is effective in improving students' grades.
    Often exceptional performances are followed by more normal performances, so the change in performance might better be explained by regression towards the mean. Incidentally, some experiments have shown that people may develop a systematic bias for punishment and against reward because of reasoning analogous to this example of the regression fallacy.
    The frequency of accidents on a road fell after a speed camera was installed. Therefore, the speed camera has improved road safety.
    Speed cameras are often installed after a road incurs an exceptionally high number of accidents, and this value usually falls (regression to mean) immediately afterwards. Many speed camera proponents attribute this fall in accidents to the speed camera, without observing the overall trend.

    I suspect this is the reason why people attribute success to things like "miracle" whitespot cures that have little scientific grounding. The fish would in all likelihood have recovered naturally whether is was treated or not.
     
  13. seank

    seank

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    Hey, give me some chance to own one first...he he

    Ahh, the joy of having a dsb and still doing it old fashion style..... No stress, no effort, no unnecessary monies spent... Just the joy of doing it simple....And it still works ;)
     
  14. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    ok, sorry...
     
  15. Hails

    Hails

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    I feel that my mother chasing me with a knife after I failed maths one term did drastically improve my marks to that A.
     
  16. Drewton

    Drewton

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    LOL! My DSB works wonderfully, and has continued to do so throughout the life of my tank so far. I did however "follow the instructions" and made it as big as I could with the correct depth and correct media, as well with about 8000lph flow over it, I don't have detritus issues that cause many of the problems commonly associated with DSB's.

    I also have a few mates that laugh at me and call me old fashioned, because DSB's didnt "work" for them. Which I attribute to them all not following the "recipe" and being the wrong size and shape with insufficient flow...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 12 Sep 2013
  17. pkc

    pkc

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    You guys should do up a thread on how to do it the lazy and quick way and one on how to do it the consciences way.
    It is easy to establish an aquarium in two weeks to suit sps and fish with out anything much beyond a impellor protected skimmer and chiller and keep the phos at bay with a pool product like starver for the short term.
    These enable a very nice display with simple means to enable some one else while you are away to keep it all good with simple instructions and you can still be a rough and ready aquarist for a while until you get time to use some other means that requires a lot more diligence.
    Deep sand beds from my experience contribute pollutants depending on how they are made up or used from 6 months to 5 years down the track.
    I had one for just under ten years in a three foot high tank and it never gave any issues, that being said I feel for over all hobbyists,they shouldn't be where anything other than the aquarium's cleaned water can get to them.
     
    Last edited: 12 Sep 2013
  18. seank

    seank

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    @pkc, why not start a thread. We will follow it closely and i think it will help a lot of newbies..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
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