mandarin question

Discussion in 'Marine Fish Discussions' started by aminyassien, 12 May 2010.

  1. aminyassien

    aminyassien

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    hi everybody

    i bought last week a green mandarin like this
    [​IMG]

    most of the time it is hiding

    it doesnit eat ocean neutrition food but i see it eating from the rocks and from the glass

    is it a good sign eating from rocks and glass?

    in the meanwile the other drgonet is eating like a monester (scooter blenny )

    this fish [​IMG]

    is that normal please advise

    Amin
     
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  3. Anemone

    Anemone

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    Amin,

    This is one of the more difficult fish to keep. They require live foods. Some have been sucessful training them to eat frozen food. How is your pod population? You can also try adding live adult enriched brine shrimp.
     
  4. FransSny

    FransSny

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    Amin, 2 dragonets in a tank spells a bit of trouble. They are voracious pod hunters (T rex I like to call them). Unless you can supply the pod population you might run out of food soon.

    And to answer the question, eating of the rocks / glass is normal behaviour.

    @ Anemone , I have also heard about people training them to take prepared foods....still have to see it in real life though
     
  5. Diveshan

    Diveshan

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    i got a pair like that which are eating bloodworm and frozen mysis frans, just goodluck though didn't train them, Amin how old is your tank if you don't mind me asking? Also do you have a refugium? It would help alot if you did
     
  6. Anemone

    Anemone

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    I have not tried it as I don't keep these fish. I'll look later to see if I can find out how others have trained these fish onto frozen.
     
  7. FransSny

    FransSny

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    Brenda, most of the "lit" on the net suggest the "starving" approach..ie a breeding net where the fish is kept and then fed prepared foods. Not really natural in my opinion
     
  8. Anemone

    Anemone

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    Frans, is live adult brine something that is commonly available at SA LFS? Surprisingly it is NOT somthing easily available in my area. I have to have it shipped to me if I want it.

    Amin, do you have access to live adult brine in Egypt?

    Frans, I don't like the starving approach. And I have not heard of that either.
     
  9. FransSny

    FransSny

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    Brenda, no I have not seen live adult brine in any LFS ( we are currently working on live pod cultures though)....most guys in SA breed their brine as far as I know

    I hate the starving approach ( I might have used the term in a veryt loose sense here), but what it boils down to is taking a predator (mandarins are preds), confining it from its natural habitat & ways & then "forcing" it to eat purely because it is hungry enough....

    My rant for the day
     
  10. MistaOrange

    MistaOrange

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    Amin when I started marines I kept a green spotted mandarin & had a hard time trying to get it to feed & had a look at lfs to see what I could feed him & got this instant baby brine shrimp from ocean nutrition & he went crazy. I started to make a brine shrimp hatchery very easy to make. Take 2 2liter coke bottles & cut 1 bottle just above the lable & before the neck shrinks then cut 2nd bottle near to bottom of the bottle or just cut a hole in the bottom of the bottle. take the first bottle you cut & put the 2nd bottle upside down into the 1st bottle & then add brine eggs add salt water from your tank then place a air stone in the bottle. Make sure the aeration is not heavy but a light flow enough to keep the eggs tuning swish the water now & then to mix the eggs with the water as you will get an eggy rim. Place hatchery in a corner & put a desk lamp close to the bottle so that the heat from the globe can keep the water temp aprox 27- 30 deg. c. Then wait for about 18 -24hrs to see results. The ocean nutrition brine shrimp eggs with salt has a quick hatching time depending on water temp if too cold you wait but if temp[ is aprox 30 deg you wait about 12-16hrs I use this setup & it's running well. LOL actually I have about 5 stations going. Mandarins love live food & if you are able to ween him off live food to frozen food congrats as to get them to eat frozen food is a bitch excuse the pun.


    Frans, Glen feeds his mandarins frozen food & will ask him how he got it right.
     
  11. mandarinman

    mandarinman

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    ive managed to wean one onto frozen and broken up flake food(liked the movement) the trick is to have it in a small enough tank so that it will easily come into contact with it's prey. start by feeding it newly hatched brine shrimp(full nutrition) and after two weeks take some of recently hatched brine shrimp and place in freezer in tiny amount of water for five mins, drain water off and feed at the same time as a little totally alive brine shrimp(newly hatched) increase freezer time by a minute every five days until you are feeding live newborn brine shrimp(a few to focus mandarin and) and a few recently deceased brine shrimp that are still full of nutrition. if at any stage mandarin starts losing weight go back to the beginning. fatten mandarin up and start again. once you have a mandarin feeding on frozen brine shrimp and putting on weight we can talk about trying to teach one to go flake and shrimp.
     
  12. Anemone

    Anemone

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    After a quick search on this I came up with a few things. Live adult enriched brine, live mysis shrimp and frozen bloodworms have been used.

    I also found that the breeders net and/or small tank was invented by Matt Pederson (founder of MOFIB) who I've met several times, and actually have a pair of his clownfish that he has breed.

    Knowing Matt, and knowing where is heart is in this hobby, I have a difficult time believing that he is using a "starving" approach, but that doesn't mean someone else is not.

    I am going to send Matt a PM and see if he can provide a link to where he has describe this in detail, or see if he can give me more details himself. I do know that Matt is busy with a new baby, so it may be a while before I hear back from him. I will let you know what I hear from him.

    As for this fish, unfortunately time is not on its side. :(
     
  13. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish MASA Contributor

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    You can keep him alive with live brine shrimp for a while, but not for ever.
    Brines are really poor nutrition and not living in the ocean.
    Next time do your homework first, before you buy a fish that needs special attention.
    Your LFS obviously don't care about, if the sold fish can be kept alive in your tank.
    As usual!
     
  14. Anemone

    Anemone

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    I found a thread where Matt Pederson explains in detail how he trains these fish on to frozen. Although not exactly easy, this is his technique:

    "#1. I put any new Synchiropus into a "Breeder Net" - it's a small net pen that you hang in the tank. This allows the Synchiropus to be isolated from the rest of the community, allowing it to settle in and not have to compete for food. This is the crucial first step...skipping this makes the rest relatively pointless!

    #2. Start off with feeding ENRICHED adult live brine shrimp. Enriching is crucial...I like using Selcon for a final enrichment, and I feed the adult brine shrimp with phytoplankton I've cultured here (
    T-Iso, Nanno, Tetraselmis etc).

    #3. What happens is that the mandarins get accustomed to taking the live brine shrimp. Having the breeder net, typically what happens is that external currents will push the live brine up against one of the sides of the container...so they get pinned there. So you have a live, wriggling brine shrimp sitting there on the "substrate", and to a Synchiropus this is a pretty natural presentaiton.

    #4. Once the Synchiropus is feeding well on live brine shrimp, you start mixing in frozen enriched brine shrimp. While it doesn't wriggle, it otherwise looks the same and gets pinned to the side of the container just like the live stuff does. It may happen quick, or it may take weeks, but once you see the Synchiropus take the frozen brine a couple times, I generally quickly wean the fish off live brine.

    #5. Once the fish is eating enriched frozen brine consistently, introducing new foods is simply a matter of time. The next food in the progression is frozen mysis, and FWIW, a Synchiropus will live, get fat and spawn on a diet of enriched frozen brine and mysis.

    #6. Once the fish is feeding well on the foods I want to be sure it eats, the fish is ready to go into the tank at large. I've found using a "Feeding Station" (look this up in relation to Seahorses) works really well with Synchiropus (also look up Malev's Mandarin Diner). You have to watch the Dragonette to make sure it's getting what it needs and that it's found the feeding station and otherwise just not getting outcompeted. FWIW, this is probably more of a problem in a LARGER aquarium vs. a smaller one (i.e. I keep 2 Synchiropus splendidus and 2 S. stellatus in a
    24 gallon cube...it works and "breaks the rules" because they're all fully trained onto prepared foods and I feed pretty heavily!) If the fish goes into the main tank and starts to get thin, you'll have to repeat the process or reconsider the community it's going into (obviously if we are talking a breeding situation with dedicated broodstock tanks, outcompetition shouldn't be an issue!)

    Bottom line, once they settle in, they are pretty solid fish in my book. Obviously you need to start with healthy fish, i.e. avoid the really emmaciated specimens...they are too far gone. Look for the ones that are active and picking around the tank for food.

    As far as PELLETS, my only thing with those is that it takes a LONG time. Luis made the observation that he tried an old batch and didn't have any luck..when he used a newly opened container they went right to it. Mine mandarins probably took 6 months or longer to accept pellets, whereas my Red Scooter Blennies may take them in as little as 2 week's time! Formula 1 pellets (smallest size) seem to be the ideal first pellet to offer -they're soft and have a really enticing smell. After that I've been able to get mine to also eat Formula 2 pellets and Spectrum Pellets.

    Bottom line, If you take your time and dedicate the effort, you'll have no problem."




    The rest of the thread can be found here: http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=176&t=1217


    I agree with Marcel, homework first.
     
  15. MistaOrange

    MistaOrange

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    Agree with you on that one Marcel
     
  16. FransSny

    FransSny

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    Thanks for the link info Brenda !
     
  17. mandarinman

    mandarinman

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    ps if you want to feed full grown brine shrimp(if your mandarin is a larger one) feed baby brine shrimp spirulina or green water or phytoplankton( brightwells or similar) to babies until fullgrown.
     
  18. aminyassien

    aminyassien Thread Starter

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    thanks for you all i love this forum

    the tank is almost 3 years and iam on my way to have a refuguim + i will move during this month to a bgger tank

    actually i liked this fish to be in my tank (i am greedy ) thats why i did not study well the fish

    thank god i saw it this morning eating a pellet i think it is a good sign

    the other dragonet eats every thing it can find and very very active


    thanks for the link it is very usefull

    i have this link that i see it could be good for all of us

    http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1492650

    thanks for you all
     
  19. mandarinman

    mandarinman

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    thank you for the link! it has been a really great read, i like the way everyone tells you how they did it, not implyingu are stupid to try it!(which is the feeling one gets now and again)
     
  20. aminyassien

    aminyassien Thread Starter

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    Of course iam not that stupid but iam a hoppiest which make me a little bit creasy loving this hoppy

    you know my wife says to me to bring for her and the kids a tank to stare at them like i do to the tanks
     
  21. mandarinman

    mandarinman

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    my wife is the same!
     
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