LR or DSB

Discussion in 'Biological/Natural Filtration and Deep Sand Beds' started by finch, 7 Dec 2009.

  1. finch

    finch

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    hello, some Q's. would a DSB eventually serve the same purpose or function as live rock, with the surface area and all(as live rock or live sand is used to seed a DSB)?

    another Q... i'v read about how important water flow is in your setup, and areas becoming stagnant - but would this "stagnation" be a problem in a DSB.? would this mean i could run a DSB in DT also without an undergravel filter. i understand the importance of having no water flow through your DSB as well as no oxygen in a DSB.
     
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  3. Bob the (reef)builder

    Bob the (reef)builder

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    Yes and no.

    The DSB will certainly serve the filteration fucntions of live rock if set up properly. However the biodiversity found in live rock is difficult or impossible to match with a DSB.

    The different areas and spaces that good live rock offers livestock is important .

    You need to do more reading for understand of DSBs as its a bit sketchy right now. There is most definately O2 in a DSB otherwise it all dies and becomes poisonous.:)
     
  4. Adee

    Adee

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  5. Annoying

    Annoying

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    The problem with a DSB is that to be effective it has to be a very large surface area, I think it was around 40% od the DT surface area to be effective but I can be corrected.
     
  6. finch

    finch Thread Starter

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    i read this article on Ron Shimek's Website and it has this to say about oxgen.

    "These nutrients act as food for the bacteria. In a very real sense, the biological filter depends upon bacterial growth. The breakdown of nitrogen compounds to nitrogen gas is done by bacteria growing in the areas of lowered oxygen concentration in the deeper parts of the sediments. At normal reef temperatures, around 82 deg F, some bacterial species will double their population in less than a half hour if they have the appropriate nutrients. This rapid bacterial growth rate causes the release of nitrogen gas which becomes visible as bubbles in the sediments."

    basically, i want to know is if the life found in LR the same as that in DSB. and can it be established.
     
  7. finch

    finch Thread Starter

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    oh, thanks for responding. where are my manners:whistling:
     
  8. finch

    finch Thread Starter

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    so bob, does that mean that LR will only serve as fish habitat, over and above its filtrating ability of coarse - which is the same as the DSB?
     
  9. Bob the (reef)builder

    Bob the (reef)builder

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    The DSB should be able to replicate LR mostly regarding filteration , although some would likely disagree.

    The life (other than the bacteria in it) that you will get in live rock will be far more diverse due to the many different habitats provided by the rock. The fine sand that we use in DSB's is inable to provide a habitat for anything larger than the smallest creatures and the odd burrowing ones.

    Regarding O2 in a DSB. The top most surfaces have a lot of oxygen which is used by bacteria that require it to break down Ammonia and Nitrite into Nitrate.

    The use of a DSB in denitrifying is a very important one. As water moves slowly through the sand it loses a lot of oxygen, at these low oxygen levels (not zero, but low ) the denitrification bacteria remove the nitrates, with them eventually exiting as nitrogen and oxygen gas.

    Anoxic conditions are created when all the oxygen is gone. In these conditions poisonous Hydrogen sulphide is produced which if it escapes will be very detrimental to the tank.

    It is important to keep a good flow over the top of the DSB, so as to lessen the chance of anoxic conditions happening. It also occurs with excesively deep beds or ones with very fine or clogged sand.

    Hope this helps.

    Further answering you question on whether you will get all the creatures in LR that you will in a DSB. I would imagine almost all except those that need soft sand to burrow in or to create sand cast tunnels in would live on the rock. Any bacteria that lives in sand will also live in liverock.
     
  10. finch

    finch Thread Starter

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    wow, thats informative. thank you. how long have you been reefing?
     
  11. Bob the (reef)builder

    Bob the (reef)builder

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    Glad i could help.

    15 yrs or so.
     
  12. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb

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    So Bob in your experience it would be better to have a sump full of LR instead of a DSB?
     
  13. finch

    finch Thread Starter

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    helo again. I've heard of DSB being "time bombs" and crashing after a few years.does that mean that LR can "crash" too? is this true. how do you prevent it.
     
  14. mandarinman

    mandarinman

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    liverock doesnt crash, it may however become coated in detris if flow is weak and become algae infested and slimy
     
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