LR in sump vs. DSB

Discussion in 'Biological/Natural Filtration and Deep Sand Beds' started by Furbz, 4 Oct 2011.

  1. Furbz

    Furbz

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    Hi guys.

    i have a ton of LR at the moment.

    simple question, which is better for filtration? tons of LR or a DSB.

    Thanks!
     
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  3. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    DSB
    give a lot more surface area than liverock can give.
    Bottom part of DSB is anaerobic where liverock inner centres can only be if you have soccer ball sized pieces.
     
  4. rakabos

    rakabos

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    RiaanP is very biased to DSB though. He would sell you one any day of the week, and twice on Sundays :D

    Liverock also works, but you have the issue of detritus getting stuck everywhere. Riaan would you say Liverock in the sump could also work, given that you have a crab or two cleaning up ?
     
  5. Furbz

    Furbz Thread Starter

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    i am a fan of DSB's.
    have had great success in the past with them.
    but i think with LR in the sump i can easily remove them and rinse them in a bucket every so often?

    just trying to figure the best filtration method...
     
  6. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Liverock in the sump can work, and it does. Detritus settlement is a problem, same as settlement on top of the DSB. DSB top is just easier to siphon clean or have hermit or 2 strutting their stuff around.

    But take into account, liverock can not be anaerobic. Or hardly have enough anaerobic areas to have the same effectiveness than a DSB.

    Think about it this way, a DSB bottom part is anaerobic, from about 100mm. And there is not a lot of water flow there, just diffusion and whatever the worm channels provide you. So on the same criteria the outer 100mm of each live rock piece is then aerobic and only the inner core, that is deeper than 100mm is anaerobic. That is without taking bigger channels and creases on the rock into account.

    Having a liverock piece on your DSB, a small piece that does not have a big footprint on the sand is in my opinion better than having no rock at all. Copepods needs somewhere to go and hide and do their thing. Also a few empty snail shells to provide housing for worms is again in my opinion better than nothing.

    Biggest issue with DSB is the flow rate of the water over the sand. A sump wider than 300mm needs a pump stronger than 3000L/h. That is my conclusion, after looking at my sump and the DSB setups at Dorry. The sumps with water height between glass divider and the actual water level of between 6 and 10mm does better than the tanks with too slow a flow rate. This will also help with the settlement on the sand, does not matter if using a shallow or deep water area above the DSB.
     
  7. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    having switched from a DSB to LR i am finding my corals are better and i can stock more with out water params going down hill in a 4hr power cut i had
    the only thing i miss from my dsb is sand :p
    so for me the Berlin method works well
     
  8. Furbz

    Furbz Thread Starter

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    thanks,

    berlin method?
     
  9. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    @LuckyFish the german way of reefing :)
    LR and skimmer
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  10. Dlaria

    Dlaria

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    You can have both dsb and Lr
     
  11. Furbz

    Furbz Thread Starter

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    i would have to remove and modify the sump then...

    anyone have any comments on a DSB with mangroves(illegal?)
     
  12. Tobes

    Tobes Retired Moderator

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    I like a DSB with a bit of LR on it, not too much as to minimise surface area. There will be lots of activity under those pieces of rocks :)
    LR can also be suspended over the DSB with eggcrate on pieces of pipe.
     
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  13. Paul B

    Paul B

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    I always like live rock. But I am opposed to DSBs anwway so you can't go by me :)
     
  14. Furbz

    Furbz Thread Starter

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    that was my initial idea. egg crate with rock ontop...

    if i do decide to go DSB i am gonna have a fair bit of rock that will need to be sold...
     
  15. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish MASA Contributor

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    Yep, that is a very simple way to do it. Works fantastic for me. ;)
     
  16. student

    student

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    I've been asking myself the same question lately.
    Im really doubting the effectiveness of my dsb at the moment.. I dont have a huge bio load in my system at all and i just cant get my nitrate down to zip.
    Keen to try chuck the dsb for more LR in the sump or try the zeovit system... well, thinking about it:whistling:
     
  17. mandarinman

    mandarinman

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    Im with luckyfish on this one. I must mention that if you decide to go dsb or lr have the water from overflow go through filter wool or filter sock to prevent detritis gathering
     
  18. Dlaria

    Dlaria

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    I gave up trying to do it all completely natural, with just a skimmer, dsb, macroalgae, lr, etc. I got a canister filter to help with polishing the water. I'm so glad I did. Kinda feels like cheating, though.
     
  19. Dlaria

    Dlaria

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    what about that miracle mud?
     
  20. Dlaria

    Dlaria

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    Is zeovite catlitter? Or is that zeolite?
     
    Last edited: 5 Oct 2011
  21. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    That depends.
    I got cerianthus in my DSB. If you want bristle worms and copepods to run around on your DSB, then you need to feed them. Not all my overflow water is skimmed. A lot of flakes do enter the DSB area and I can see the cerianthus catching them. If I had a filter sock or floss in place, they will go hungry. Also having a hermit or two, depending on hermit size and DSB size is not a bad idea either. Another good candidate is Strombos snails. So it depends on the setup.

    Using floss or filter sock can be used where the DSB area only have smaller organisms. Those small worms that creates the tunnels you see and other microscopic life forms. So it should look barren to the human eye.

    And a filter sock is NOT one of your old filthy dirty cocks you had on your feet!!!
     
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