Looking for CupriSorb or other copper removal product

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by Reef Maniac, 8 Jul 2007.

  1. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac MASA Contributor

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    Hi everyone,

    A fellow Bloemfontein reefkeeper has recently upgraded to a larger tank, and in the process it would appear as if someone either dropped a brass screw of some copper wire "cuttings" from an electrical conduit into the tank. After running the tank for about 6 weeks, using the LR from his previous tanks, we've discovered that the water contains about 0.2 -0.3 ppm copper - WAY above the maximum allowable level for a reef setup :(

    Anyway, he managed to move all his corals to another aquarist's tank, and they have fortunately all recovered. He will be removing the LR (about 200 kg...) during the next day or two in order to catch his fish, so as to move them to a temporary aquarium. Most of the worms, etc. living in the LR have already died. Now as everyone knows, 200 kg of live rock is a substantial investment, so rather than throwing it all away, we would rather kill off all life, remove the copper, and then re-seed the LR using a few selected pieces from other tanks (and perhaps a few new pieces...)

    So,...

    We will try to remove most of the copper trapped in the rock by reducing the pH of the water to around 6.0, using CO2. The reduced pH should increase the solubility of the copper, allowing most of it to leach out of the rock. After a day or two, the water will be discarded. Seeing as the LR is already nearly dead, and as the reduced pH will kill off the remaining life, we then plan to fill up the tank with just RO water, and to repeat the CO2 acidification one more time (or more, obviously testing for copper every time...), before adding fresh salt water.

    Apart from the above treatment, we would like to use some Seachem CupriSorb and/or Poly-Bio-Marine Polyfilter to aid in the copper removal (or any other product known to work in this regard - please advise...).

    Please comment on our proposed method.

    Also, if any of the sponsors sell either CubriSorb or Polyfilters, or if anyone know of any dealer who sells these products in South Africa, PLEASE let me know by posting their details, or by sending me a private message - it will REALLY be appreciated.
     
    Last edited: 8 Jul 2007
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  3. palmerc

    palmerc

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    Hi Hennie,

    If you are going to be discarding the water I would not bother with the Cuprisorb.

    It is not going to remove any more copper than the method you intend employing.

    As for your method can you clarify something. You say that after removing all livestock you will reduce the pH to 6.0 with CO2. Will this be done in the existing water? If so I would rather use freshly made up salt water (if you want to use salt water) or just plain RO water from the outset.
     
  4. SIMS

    SIMS

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    Aquality stock Seachem products....
     
  5. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac Thread Starter MASA Contributor

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    Thanks for the info :)

    To clarify, we originally planned to treat the rock in the tank, initially using the existing tank water, and thereafter using one or more 100% water changes with just RO water. After giving it some more thought, we are now planning on removing the rocks to a few plastic 200 litre drums, and to start the treatment with RO water.

    I would still like to run the last "rinse" using either Cuprisorb or polyfilter - you know, us engineering types ALWAYS add bolts and braces :whistling:

    Sims - thanks for the info, much appreciated... Could you please PM me their contact details?
     
  6. SIMS

    SIMS

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  7. TheWaterboy

    TheWaterboy Sponsor

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    why not just use carbon!...............
     
  8. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac Thread Starter MASA Contributor

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    Carbon does not bind copper very well. Cuprasorb and polyfilter are designed to adsorb metals much more efficiently
     
  9. TheWaterboy

    TheWaterboy Sponsor

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    one can add KDF to the activated carbon for a few hours and run it in the system to remove copper efficiantly................kdf is expensive ....around R300 per kg but i reccon 300 to 500g in a cartridge with activated carbon will do the trick

    http://watermanfilters.com/filtrationdata.htm
     
  10. phat

    phat

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    very interesting marco...
     
  11. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac Thread Starter MASA Contributor

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    Umm... I don't know - I thought that KDF consists of a mixture of zinc and... COPPER. Even if the combination of the two metals can remove 90% of certain "impurities" already in the water AT TWO TIMES THE AMOUNT ALLOWED (would that be a concentration of 2 x the allowable level FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION?), I doubt if it can reduce COPPER to a level which would be safe for marine invertabrates. Your quoted website does say that it can remove 90% copper, but the site they refer to as being the origin of the table does not even mention copper - see for yourself:

    nontoxic.com: http://www.nontoxic.com/aquasanawater/purewater.htm

    Also, I've never heard of the element "Chomium" Could this perhaps be "chromium"? Makes one wonder about the accuracy of everything else quoted by this site (which also appears to sell organic mattresses, wool bedding, and futons, amongst others...


    Perhaps I'm overly sceptical, but past dealings with "health experts" selling, amongst others, "far infra-red ceramic lined filters" and other such esotherics has made me question everything sold by these people.

    Hennie
     
  12. TheWaterboy

    TheWaterboy Sponsor

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    yes it is based of zinc and copper..................METALS
    as is ferric oxide (phosphate remover)....RUST


    the link i posted is from a reputable water purification supply company.......who does not sell mattresses
    and copper is very visable on the table on their site......and yes chromium was spelt wrong.......
    but hey im a little busy to banter with things like this.....was just offering my advise which i see you do not need anyway.....

    personally i have used KDF in My own system for 24 hours to remover copper last year and had no adverse effects
    that is why i posted my advise having used this product for years in water treatmenmt we have not had issues

    here is the link to KDF themselves.........and no they do not sell health products or mattresses etc.....just water purification solutions
    http://www.kdfft.com/success_metal.htm

    altough this method may not seem routine............"sceptics" as you stated yourself should then stick to using more orthodox expensive methods and not ask for advise.

    i am aware of who you are and your great reputation, as andrew a friend of mine talks about your experties often, so i have great respect for you........and ask that you read these posts in helpfull context and not attacks etc.....
    have a great day
     
    Last edited: 9 Jul 2007
  13. phat

    phat

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    geez marco you clearly have done something right for ppl to be nailing you left right and centre:lol:
     
  14. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac Thread Starter MASA Contributor

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    Marco,

    Apologies if you mis-interpreted my post - it certainly was not meant as an attack on you or your company. As stated, I'm quite sceptical about many things, including many of the water purification "facts" which just does not make sense to me.

    So, let's see if we can clear the air...

    Iron is depleted quite rapidly in a marine tank, as it is used up by not only macro algae, but also by the zooxanthellae living in our corals, so the FeO is not really a danger (AND it binds to the PO4, thus taking it out of solution in the aquarium...). Copper is not used up, but actually builds up over time - hence my reluctance to have more copper introduced into the tank.

    The site you posted the link of stated at the bottom of the table that the information was obtained from ANOTHER site, and they posted a link to THAT site - this is the link I referred to when I said that you should check it out yourself.

    This ORIGINATING site did not have ANY reference to copper in their table of elements removed. Also, THAT site (not the one you referred to...) is selling the mattresses, futons, etc under the banner of "Organic" - just check the left side of the web page.

    I really appreciate the fact that you're offering advice - I'm merely querying advice which does not make sense to me :)

    Well, if you had originally stated that your advice was based on personal experience I would not have queried it so readily... actually, I suppose that I would still have queried it, but my response would have been different :whistling:

    Just to confirm, did you run salt water through the KDF for 24 hours, or just fresh water?

    I'm aware of this manufacturer, and of their website. I agree that their product has a well deserved reputation for removing many heavy metals, especially lead. However, and no offence intended, I still find it hard to understand how the copper/zinc combination can remove more copper, without adding any to the water. Quoting from the KDF website:

    ...and in this example the zinc ends up in the water at the same ratio as the lead it has removed (and zinc is also toxic in excess).

    If the same formula was applied to copper, the copper ion would surely have to bind with the zinc, and in the process the zinc would have to "let go" of the copper molecule it was bound to before the reaction started - I don't see how this would result in a nett binding of copper.

    I must admit that my chemistry is very rusted, and if I look at this reaction in the wrong way I would be only too glad to be corrected (then I can use the KDF without any worries ;) )

    Marco, I hope that you now understand why I queried the advice, and that this has cleared the air. Although I have not dealt with you in person, you have a great reputation in the reefkeeping community, and as such I value your advice. I have personally referred many potential customers to you. I also hope that we will be able to do business in the near future - so, come on, let's shake on it :wave2: :surrender:

    PS. If anyone really want to see my "distrusting" side, they must try to sell me life insurance...

    Hennie
     
    Last edited: 9 Jul 2007
  15. viper357

    viper357 Admin MASA Contributor

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    Hennie and Marco sitting in a tree....:smooch:

    :lol::lol::lol:

    sorry :wave2:
     
  16. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac Thread Starter MASA Contributor

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    :D

    Hey, there are kids around...

    :55: :22: :1:
     
  17. TheWaterboy

    TheWaterboy Sponsor

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    for sure.......thanks
    [​IMG]did'nt mean to have guns blazing either, and respect your post,
    [​IMG] shaken....lol





    [​IMG]
     
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