Local breeding & propogation illegal?

Discussion in 'Diving, Collecting and Environmental Discussions' started by NewbiePta, 30 Mar 2015.

  1. NewbiePta

    NewbiePta

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    Morning everyone.

    Just a quick question. I am new to the hobby yes, but my goal was/is to get to a point with hardware and knowledge that I can successfully breed normal fishies like Bangai Cardianal or some clowns. Maybe propagate some anemones and corals and sell them to sustain the hobby.

    I mentioned this to a LFS and he told me that this is highly illegal. No marine fish may be bred locally nor any corals propagated and sold.

    Is there any truth to this? I don’t trust this guy, he's prices on everything is sky high.:m33:

    If I missed a similar thread I do apologise
    :m85:
     
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  3. jimilutz

    jimilutz

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    It is unfortunately the truth. Search through this forum for the legal woes of a guy who was trying to breed clownfish. @dallasg is quite informed on the subject too.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  4. mariusmeyer

    mariusmeyer

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    Its turns out that propagating for non commercial purpose is legal. So you can make frags and sell that to fellow reefers, no problem. I think breeding clown in the first place it not worth it. They are so cheap that what you want to sell them at is not really worth the effort. Bengal cardinals is a different story, and since they are on the red list it is highly encouraged.
     
  5. NewbiePta

    NewbiePta Thread Starter

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    So all propogation and all breeding is illegal?
     
  6. CameL

    CameL

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    As Marius said, propagating or fragging of corals with non commercial interest is legal.
     
  7. NewbiePta

    NewbiePta Thread Starter

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    Clown fish was on my list because it was listed as an "beginner" level breeding fish. So my focus will shift to Bangai Cardinals. Oh boy.......
     
  8. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    As a newbie to the hobby, you got so much other more crucial things to first master my young Padawan.
     
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  9. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    hi,

    it is legal to breed on a non-commercial scale, this definition itself is unclear, but safe to say that as long as its not your main source of income you are ok. there are other business and SARS laws which come into play as well, income tax etc that are some how included in the aquaculture laws in south africa. for more information see this thread
    The Law regarding Ornamentals - Marine Aquariums South Africa
     
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  10. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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  11. Lord_Blackadder

    Lord_Blackadder

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    Banggais are easier anyway. Straight to brines, so you don't need massive phyto cultures and rotifers.
     
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  12. NewbiePta

    NewbiePta Thread Starter

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    Hahaha I know! Doesnt hurt to have a goal. "If you aim at nothing you hit it every time!"
     
  13. Pepper

    Pepper

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    Hi Guys

    Just some background:
    I used to breed clowns on a small scale (had 3 pairs), and at some point found it fairly easy to raise them. That is after a lot of trial and error, I was on my own and I only knew of Rhodes also breeding.Don’t know if this forum existed in 2005 but I sure didn’t know about it. Those days it was a lot harder to get hold of Rotifers and Algae. End 2007 I packed everything up and GAVE almost 2000 juvenile clowns to a lfs.(most was black onyx’s)

    End 2014 we started a nano again and found this forum and was shocked to read about Luckyfish’s ordeal. It is shocking that I bred clowns for almost 3 years and never knew I needed a permit or that it was illegal. My point being that we the general public has no clue and are not informed enough. We just assume its legal since it’s sold to us. Thanks to this forum and Dallasg and friends we are being informed and ordeal that Luckyfish went through has put a spotlight on this issue.

    First off thank you @dallasg and everyone who put all the effort and money into getting all these issues to the point where it is at the moment. You have made life a lot easier in this regard. To be honest I’m thinking of breeding clowns again a got hold of some to pair up.

    The big question is when does it become commercial? Is it when you sell 1 fish to a lfs or when you sell to more than one lfs, or is it when you sell more than a certain amount of fish? Or is there no limit as long as its from home and not your main income.

    Is there really a South African market for breeding commercially, because I don’t think we can compete with international breeders for export?

    What is our SA lfs’s attitude towards local breeders? Some of the lfs’s still don’t know about the laws, for them it’s just about the money. The main reason I packed up in 2007 was the lf’s wanted to buy a clown for R5 from me and would then sell it a day later for R280. Now don’t get me wrong I know they have to make a living / profit but that to me was just daylight robbery. In the end I just gave them away to get rid of them :( Won’t even go into that they get healthier, less stressed fish and won’t have losses. If the lf’s knows about the law will they insist on me providing a permit before buying let’s say 10 fish a month from me. I guess it links up to the question of when it becomes commercial.

    In the end there is light thx to people like Dallasg, but I think we need to realize we can’t just leave it in the hands of 1 or 2 individuals,the problem is we the general public don’t know how to help or even how to begin to help. I for one am willing to help where I can, just need some pointer in the right direction.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
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  14. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    its becomes commercial when business laws come into play, SARS, income tax, export permits etc
    also having a whole house dedicated to breeding in their yes is considered commercial.
     
  15. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Basically, the taxman wants his cut.
    If you bypass him, then its illegal.
     
  16. Pepper

    Pepper

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    No messing with that guy for sure....
     
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