Legality of breeding

Discussion in 'Breeding fish' started by Skattejag, 3 Aug 2013.

  1. Skattejag

    Skattejag

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    Did Arno Naude mention anything about the legality of breeding at the expo (2013)?

    Has the whole legal issue been sorted now? Do we know which permits are required for breeding? Would one require a permit do breed fishes if he/she does not sell the fishes?
     
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  3. butcherman

    butcherman Moderator MASA Contributor

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    We will get info from arno on monday for everyone
     
  4. Rory

    Rory Admin MASA Contributor

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    Will have to check but from what I heard as long as you're not doing it commercially and it was originally imported literally you're ok to breed things.
     
  5. Skattejag

    Skattejag Thread Starter

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    @butcherman : Ok, thank you.

    @Rory : Ok. We'll just have to wait to find out what steps one would need to go through to breed ornamental fishes, crabs, shrimps etc. i.t.o. permits etc. , if one intends to sell commercially.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  6. Sea-Horse

    Sea-Horse

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    They are still pushing ahead with laws that would make you guilty nearly everything from fragging corrals to looking at a seahorse (and I am not exaggerating). The final draft to be signed into law appeared a three weeks back.

    Oddly enough the law only appeared after the "commenting" time had passed.
    Below is a PDF link if you have a lot of time on your hands

    http://www.info.gov.za/view/DownloadFileAction?id=188411
     
  7. Quintin

    Quintin

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    I would trust what @Sea-Horse has to say about these things as he is very clued up when it comes to the laws in this country regarding breeding, importing and keeping.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  8. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    There are others
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  9. Quintin

    Quintin

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    True but I trust him.
    He has been in this game for a long time and has done all of the above.
     
  10. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    All trade in Sea-horses and pipe fish is illegal.
    Yeah... Pipefish... Of which almost all the LFS landed some 2 or 3 weeks ago...

    They are all Cites protected. And any cites protected is an issue.

    Regarding propagation, growing your own Zoa colonies, selling some frags. As long as it is from your hobby, then its OK. As soon as you go commercial, then the Taxman wants his cut and it becomes a mess of red tapes.

    Same as your dog having puppies. You can sell them. No problem or issues. But when you have 50 dogs, breeding them, then a lot of SPCA and municipality laws came into affect.

    Hopefully we can post a summary on Monday
     
    Last edited: 4 Aug 2013
  11. Sea-Horse

    Sea-Horse

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    QUINTON - thanks for the vote of confidence my R60 000 legal bill has taught me a thing or two about importing marines although it seems that some people still prefer to knock my knowledge - Maybe that's why I don't post on Masa that often.

    RIAANP - you are incorrect in saying that all trade in pipefish and Sea-horses are illegal. Currently the law still states that the removing of Sea-horses from the South African coast line or the keeping of the Knysna Seahorse is illegal.

    But you are right in saying that CITES does play a big role in the South African importation of these and other animals.

    Many recognised overseas suppliers have a Cites Permit book and issue and sign the permit at the distribution centre (Australia being an example of this).

    First things first, the bill is still not passed, secondly they are not going for the guy who has one or two clown fish .

    They always go for the "BIG FISH" first - the importer/ wholesaler and then only if they become aware of illegal trading. The law aims at addressing the port of entry.

    DALLASG - I know there are others, and it's up to them to fight this battle. I fought for 3 years every time we were close to a court action they would agree to certain "restrictions" only to ignore the agreement when amendments were made.

    I am officially a small scale hobbyist who has a relatively fresh knowledge on the law, but no interest in wasting any more money on legal matters. For that I trust the others will stand up and be accounted for- for any up to the minute laws go to gov.za and do a search.

    Don't Shoot the messenger
     
  12. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    I have heard of your struggles and I can only imagine the frustration

    I think things are starting to change slowly
     
  13. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    as far as I understood it, the latest bill into effect 19 July 2013 (might have the date wrong) do list all pipefish. I did ask Arno about that after his talk. And he confirmed again. As you said, do not shoot the messenger.
     
  14. Skattejag

    Skattejag Thread Starter

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    Would anyone care to enlighten us on Arno's talk at the expo? Thank you.
     
  15. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    We have all talked, debated and complained. Time for action. :thumbup:
     
  16. Wesd

    Wesd

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    tagging
     
  17. Sea-Horse

    Sea-Horse

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    Let me know what we should do !!!!
     
  18. Sea-Horse

    Sea-Horse

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    Riaan you are correct, they do not list species just Family Seahorse, Family Pipefish but the bill has not been promulgated YET. Right now it is a whitepaper, once signed by the Minister it becomes law. This was why I was so amazed that the paper only appeared after the time for "comments" had passed.

    Like with the Toll Road saga the bill was sneaked through parliament. and should have first been presented as three other papers. I can write a book about this law, why it may not be enforced, and more.

    The law is n essence helping make prosecution easier, but various other laws affect this one. If you imported livestock and realised it was a criminal offence, the crime starts with the airline. You open a box expecting to see a dog, but a bunch of snaked are inside. This in essence does not make you guilty of importing snakes.

    The problem is that law is law and a recent aviation prosecution with the guy using a "ham" radio to listen to planes land proved this. You can buy the radio's, you can donwload the apps but one day one guy arrives and arrests you. In this case the very bar he was parked next too was live streaming the same channels.

    With my more recent experience I do not know if I have the fight left in me. We need to rally troops who believe in the cause and even then once signed into law you can only "win" a case and set a president, you can't have the law reprieved.
     
  19. The Viskop

    The Viskop Viskop OOOOON!

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    tagging
     
  20. ken

    ken

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    Bump
     
  21. Quintin

    Quintin

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    Only bump you going to get on this subject is :banghead:
     
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