Kyknet Program IMPORTANT

Discussion in 'Diving, Collecting and Environmental Discussions' started by Carl, 18 Nov 2007.

  1. Carl

    Carl

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    Ok the fun starts,

    At 20h00 on “KYKNET” a program “Groen” production named “Paradys Onder Aanslag” was aired. In this program it was stated that the reduction of anenomies at Aliwal Shoal is because of the collection of specimens by reefkeepers.

    This program will be aired again about 10 times in the next week.

    Now as Marine hobbyist are we going to take this lying down or defend ourselves. The last thing we need is Marine and Coastal or Environmental affairs looking at this and saying whoooaaa lets nail the marine keepers.

    Please watch this as soon as possible and lets combine a e-mail to KYKNET and set the record straight.

    groen@kyknet.co.za

    Regards

    Carl
     
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  3. Carl

    Carl Thread Starter

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    Hi Guys

    Please give some feedback on this. the programme is air again today at 15h00

    Carl
     
  4. Rory

    Rory Admin MASA Contributor

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    I don't have DSTV so can't watch the programme but how do you know for sure that it isn't reefkeepers and possibly some dodgy LFS that are responsible?
     
  5. viper357

    viper357 Admin MASA Contributor

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    I agree with this, I personally know of 2 people that often do collections at mabibi and aliwal, surely we should be targetting them and not the people that actually want to protect the reefs?

    If the anemone's reduction in numbers is not caused by reckless reefkeepers who are illegally raping our coastline, then I am interested to see what other reason could you possibly afford them?

    Yes, granted they are going to target us, who else are they going to target? Perhaps they should be informed of certain LFS owners that take truckloads of local rock/specimens from our shores.

    I will say it straight out to you too, I have also accepted goods collected from our local shores, however, after having been "educated" about the wrong I was doing, I have since corrected my ways and refuse point blank to accept any illegally collected corals/rock etc. from our shores.

    Personally, I would like to see the authorities based permanently at favoured collection spots for the illegal collectors. That is the only way they are going to combat it. Simply putting laws into place does not help.

    What are you wanting to say to them Carl? Are you wanting to say that it is not the reefkeepers collecting specimens? What are you going to say to them to convince them otherwise?

    I applaud you for wanting to do this Carl, but I strongly suggest you get all your ducks in a row first, get the facts together.
     
  6. Tridan

    Tridan

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    Hmmm not cool carl, think we should do something about this i am sure there are divers out there collecting but its not fair to blame the entire hobby
     
  7. Carl

    Carl Thread Starter

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    Rory

    If all the reefkeepers in SA get together and dive aliwal and each take a couple of nennies it still would not touch sides.

    The fact that SAPPI & SAICOR are pumping thick black sludge and pulp effluant into the umkomaas river is OK because according to them it is non toxic, forget the nitrates and phosphates, the marine hobiest are getting the blame.

    Yes their might be some collector or poachers but the impact we make on that environment is insignaficant.

    Carl
     
  8. calvin

    calvin

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    i feel the bottom line is that reefkeepers are infact to blame here ! i personally know of guys pulling stuff of the deeper reefs
     
  9. calvin

    calvin

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    carl great story but perhaps provide some info to back this up? anemones are not overley common off our coast and collecting them is not at all sustanable!! so perhaps you should re think your mindless statement
     
  10. SIMS

    SIMS

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    I tend to agree with Dean on this one...

    My Afrikaans is shocking at best but from what I understood there has been 9 independent studies over the past years and have all concluded that the waste has no impact on the live stock. I find it hard to belive but 9 studies all confirming the same thing is hard to ignore.

    I think it's silly to think that all the fishing and coral poaching has no impact on the stock levels in our seas. I'm talking in general here. You can't tell me that the sea has a never ending stock of fish/corals all around the world? How many marine fish/corals are taken on a monthly basis? Add to that the millions of fish take from the sea for food every day then the fishing for fun added to that....... one day we will have bare oceans to look at just like the oil fields will run dry as will gold mines and everything else that we mine. Mankind is using up everything and every time someone tries to state their findings the users are quick to point fingers at others.

    Carl in this case I would guess the reefkeepers and the factories are to blame...

    JMO
     
  11. DragonReef

    DragonReef

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    Guy's lets not let this topic get out of hand. Conservation is something that a lot of people are passionate about and then there are those that just worry about today and don't think any further than that.

    I for one don't want my kids or grandchildren to have to see a picture of something that has been poached into extictness.
    I think the point Carl is trying to make is that the majority of Reefkeepers are passionate about the hobby, the animals we keep and the enviroment that they come from.
    I certainly don't want to be labled as one of those that is responsible for the demise of the local Reefs, because I'm a Reef Keeper. But by the same token I have to be mindfull of the fact that the vast majority of what I keep in my tank has come from the Ocean at one point.

    The key here is supporting those LFS's who are bringing in livestock from reputable sources, who are practising sustainable, renewable harvesting and or propogation.

    This whole thing can have far reaching effects if taken incorrectly by the authorities.
    If they see the demise of the local Reefs a fault of Reef Keepers there first reaction would be to try and kill the hobby. They will make it impossible for Importers to obtain the permits required and we will no longer see shipments arriving.

    Short sited yes, because this will open the door for even more black market trading and reef plundering. Take it a step further and make all propogation and breeding programmes illegal as it will be seen as a means of perpetuating the hobby. Okay maybe the latter is a little extreme, but similar laws were passed in Germany back in the nineties for different reasons.

    There probably are some merits in what the TV programme was trying to highlight and we need to seriously sit up and listen. Not having seen the programme I can't comment on the content, but where is the information being sourced from ?
    Generally ecology studies like these are long term, and many factors need to be considered. For one the recent heavy swells that we have had on the East Coast would certainly have contributed to some devastation.
     
  12. Mekaeel

    Mekaeel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    i thought this was already done
     
  13. Mekaeel

    Mekaeel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    the problem here is,even the parksboard dont know whats what.eg.i asked a parksboard official if i can collect LR from a certain spot.and he said YES.does he even know what it is???
     
  14. calvin

    calvin

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    mekaeel this is a real problem!! parksboard are quick to make the rules but simply dont have the funding and manpower to inforce them
     
  15. Mekaeel

    Mekaeel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    exactly Calvin.from what i see,what most of them only know is if a angling and crayfish permit is still valid and if the bag limit is in order
     
  16. calvin

    calvin

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    mekaeel i watched some guys drag netting with a boat and by shore at vechies early this year ,and upon informing the parksboard officer on duty he simply walked up to them and five minutes later left with a bag of fish from them telling us it was all sorted out they had permits
     
  17. Mekaeel

    Mekaeel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    theres too much of corruption thats the prob
     
  18. Carl

    Carl Thread Starter

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    Ok Guys

    Lets get this back into perspective.

    The slant of the insert in this programme was that we as reefer are single responsible for the reduction of anemones on Aliwal Shoal.

    I am a scuba diver with over 5,000 dives on the Southern African coast and am well aware of the populations in Aliwal, Sodies and other dive spots. I have know these dive spot since the late 70’s

    The issue in this programme was about the Assault on Aliwal by sport and commercial fisherman, divers, industrial and agricultural effluent and marine keepers.

    Viper
    What are you wanting to say to them Carl? Are you wanting to say that it is not the reefkeepers collecting specimens?


    I AM A MARINE KEEPER and so are the majority of members on this site. We do not rape or pillage in “declared coastal protected areas” so, do not put us in the same camp as those that do it.

    Viper
    What are you going to say to them to convince them otherwise?


    That we, collectively as stakeholders in clubs/forums do not support this but are supporting our Dragon Reef quote ”LFS's who are bringing in livestock from reputable sources, who are practicing sustainable, renewable harvesting and or propagation.”

    Dragon Reef, I echo your fears.

    As a forum and various clubs we need to come out with a statement that they should not generalize and that we as concerned hobbyist will address this problem.

    Carl
     
  19. Rory

    Rory Admin MASA Contributor

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    The problem is, you don't know where the LFS got their stock from... In the US (and internationally) they have MAC which monitors the industry and can provide "MAC certification" so you can buy your corals "guilt free". Unfortunately for us the costs of becoming MAC certified are just too prohibitive for our LFS's. Perhaps you should suggest to MCM that they should subsidise MAC certification costs and advertising if they really want to combat the "marine keepers" however I suspect it is not worth the money and that "marine keepers" are at the bottom of the ladder when it comes to who's to blame.
     
  20. Steve Warren

    Steve Warren

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    I don't know enough about the anemones at Aliwal shoal, I have my doubts on whether very many hobbyists would actually collect anemones on a large scale. I believe it is a protected area, but could be mistaken. If it is not a protected area and is legal to collect anemones it would most likely have to be done using private boats, etc. as most SCUBA divers are extremely environmentally conscious and even if they are not well educated about the topic would still be against the removal of organisms. Poachers on the other hand could quite possibly deplete an area in a very short space of time (as they have with perlemoen). They would still need a market however, which could be fish stores that are not reputable or private buyers. Generally, word gets around and if hobbyists or hobbyist clubs find out they usually avoid the shop and inform the authorities, if there is proof.
     
  21. Steve Warren

    Steve Warren

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    Just to add, ideally this should not be tied up with legal collecting of marine specimens with relevant permits and undertaken ethically. Also, as far as I am aware collecting in KZN with SCUBA is illegal and collecting large host anemones on a breath hold will be extremely difficult.
     
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