Kalk slurry method

Discussion in 'Water Parameters and Additives' started by Alan, 21 Aug 2007.

  1. Alan

    Alan Admin MASA Contributor

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    Hi, has anyone got some links into the adding of calcium hydroxide in the form of a slurry? Tried google and could not find the actual recipe for this.
     
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  3. Obi-Wan

    Obi-Wan

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    yes, and no, and maybe....

    Hi Alan

    In search of more building material? hehehe

    This method I use if I wanna colour up liverock in tanks/vats/ponds where I do NOT have coral/fish...just as my own safety procedure.

    First appearing in hobby circles and discussed by
    ~Anthony Calfo in his Book of Coral Propagation v1.0 (BOCP1), Page 185

    Below is a brief description of the method, and some VALID reasons NOT to adopt the slurry method.

    http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=270555

    http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=104871&perpage=25&highlight=Calfo%20Kalk&pagenumber=1

    I understand Rod, uses and advocates similar additions in his own set-ups, why not ask him as well?
     
    Last edited: 22 Aug 2007
  4. Rod

    Rod

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    The dose should be 1/4 teaspoon powdered Calcium Hydroxide per 150 liters of tank capacity. Mix in say 2 liters RO water, shake and add the lot. I have done this for years. I got this from an article by Dr Jaubert of the Monaco Aquarium. He is also resonsible for his patented "Plenum" method.
    Their is nothing more irritating than trying to get a drip to actually drip. Mr Calfo in his book on Coral propagation mentions that he goes around with a watering can adding the mix.
     
    Last edited: 22 Aug 2007
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  5. viper357

    viper357 Admin MASA Contributor

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    Thanks Rod. Is there a preferred time of day/night to add the slurry?

    I am assuming this will bump up the ph of the tank which is what I am aiming for, I am tying to get a daytime ph of 8.6 and a nighttime ph of 8.3.

    Do you add this slurry daily?
     
  6. Rod

    Rod

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    We do this every morning. However probably the best time would be at night, this should sort you night pH. Quite frankly I dont measure any parameters. Kalkwasser sorts out so many different things, such as phophates etc. I have always been puzzled by the fact that the usual "urban legends" are going to surface when people read this. The usual nonsense about pH out of control, snow storms etc. As I said I have done this for years, demonstrated to people by pouring it over corals and still people will go back to dripping. Makes you think?
    Anybody want a demonstration? Call me.
     
  7. viper357

    viper357 Admin MASA Contributor

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    hehe, Thanks Rod, I used to use the same method until everybody shouted at me, I tried dripping but got so sick and tired of battling with it so I just stopped using kalkwasser completely.
     
  8. SIMS

    SIMS

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    Me too I have a few tubs of the stuff and have used it twice. It's enough of a pain to mix the stuff let alone get it dripping. So I will start again from tonight and add kalk. How would one know how much your tank needs?
     
  9. Galibore

    Galibore Retired Moderator

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    Here's what I am going to do. (Done it once to test etc. but seeing that I don't really have calcium loving corals, will wait until I get some SPS.)

    For each 25L drum of R.O water that I get, I add 12ml vinegar, shake well. Then I add 2 tsp of Dischem Slaked Lime and shake well. I gooi that into my auto top off container.

    Now Viper, what worries me is that you said in another thread, that the container must be kept closed. Why? My ATO container is not closed (obviously). Are you saying that what I am doing is not effective/dangerous?
     
  10. viper357

    viper357 Admin MASA Contributor

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    When a kalk solution is exposed to air, it changes into something else.

    One of the more knowledgeable guys will have to step in here with the correct terminology.
     
    Last edited: 22 Aug 2007
  11. Mekaeel

    Mekaeel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    ok a bit off topic.but how bad is it when you open up your kalk stirrer to add in more kalkwasser?
     
  12. palmerc

    palmerc

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    Galibore,

    The container closed story is just to stop kalkwasser reacting with carbon dioxide to form insoluble calcium carbonate. If you are forming calcium acetate (kalk + vinegar) this no longer applies.

    Anyway for regular kalkwasser this is not dangerous, just makes the solution a little less effective but IMO it would take at least a few weeks before the solution became useless.

    Clinton
     
  13. Rod

    Rod

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    Kalkwasser aka Calcium Hydroxide reacts with the CO2 in the air forming Calcium Carbonate(CaCO3). This renders the Kalkwasser useless. It is not toxic, simply insoluble at marine water ph. You are in fact forming Bicarbonate ions in when adding fresh Calcium Hydroxide to your aquarium. I stress the fresh part. If one looks at a commercial Ca(OH)2 reactor, they all have drains to drain off the CaCo3 which has formed in the reactor.
     
    Last edited: 22 Aug 2007
  14. viper357

    viper357 Admin MASA Contributor

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    Can you explain this please Rod. What is CaCo3?

    Palmerc, thanks. Is there a preset or recommended amount of vinegar to add to kalkwasser? If we work off 2 litres of RO water, how many ml or grams of kalkwasser and how many ml of vinegar should we add?
     
    Last edited: 20 Apr 2009
  15. leslie hempel

    leslie hempel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    interesting thread looks like ive walked into a lab of mad scientists here...
     
  16. Midasblenny

    Midasblenny

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    CaC03 is calcium carbonate viper
     
  17. Rod

    Rod

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  18. Galibore

    Galibore Retired Moderator

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    Phew, thanks, I was hoping that the answer was something like that.

    To reiterate Viper's question: What would be a good (and safe) solution of RO, Vinegar and Kalkwasser be if used in the ATO method?
     
  19. Galibore

    Galibore Retired Moderator

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    Alan, very sorry for sidetracking a bit.
     
  20. Alan

    Alan Thread Starter Admin MASA Contributor

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    No Probs, speaking to AC the other day and he has been using this method for many years and works well for him, so decided to give it a go, certainly a good way to add Ca to the system. Will read all the links tonight and give it a go.
     
  21. sunburst

    sunburst

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    An excerpt from an article by Randy Farley Holmes discussing the myth of degradation of a kalk solution by co2. The rest of the article is statistical evidence showing that although degradation does occur, it happens at such a slow pace that measurement is near impossible unless taken over many weeks.
    Delivery Methods: Still Reservoirs
    There are actually several different ways of delivering limewater. Some methods are primarily suited for small additions. These include the immediate addition of limewater or a slurry of lime solids in water.9 This method works fine for additions of less than 0.2 milliequivalents of alkalinity per liter of aquarium water (0.2 meq/L), but at higher additions, the pH rises too much (about 0.66 pH units on the addition of 0.5 meq/L of alkalinity via limewater, the equivalent of 1.2% of the aquarium volume in saturated limewater).10 I won't discuss these immediate addition methods further in this article.
    For larger additions, most aquarists use either slow addition from a reservoir, or a Nilsen reactor. Slow addition from a reservoir can be accomplished using a gravity driven dripper, or using a slow pump to spread the additions out throughout the day (and night). In it's simplest form, a gravity system can be comprised of a suitable large container set above the aquarium or sump, with a hose running from near the bottom of the limewater container to just above the water line of the sump, where it slowly drips into the water. There are a number of commercial products designed for the purpose, such as the AquaDoser by Kent.
    More sophisticated systems can involve a large holding reservoir for limewater (up to 55 gallons or more) coupled to a delivery pump and a float switch in the aquarium or sump that controls the delivery to match the evaporation rate. This is the type of system that I use. I make up limewater in a 44-gallon Rubbermaid Brute trashcan by putting the CaO in the bottom, and pouring in water by 5-gallon buckets. That process takes about 5 minutes once every 2-3 weeks. The trashcan is closed by simply putting on its lid. The pump that sends the water to the sump is a Reef-Filler pump (maximum pumping rate 3 gallons per day), which is controlled to match the evaporation rate using a float switch in my sump. The entire limewater system is located remotely from my aquarium (in my basement), so the size of the reservoir is of no consequence. In my case, I often do not use saturated limewater because my aquarium does not need that much supplementation of calcium and alkalinity. Consequently, I add less CaO than would be required to produce saturated limewater. If an aquarist wants saturated limewater, there is no real reason to try to add a specific amount. Any extra solids just sit on the bottom and wait for the next water refill (these solids also absorb impurities like copper out of the water, but that's the subject of a different article).
    This type of limewater system is the type that most often comes under fire for being prone to degradation problems by reaction with atmospheric carbon dioxide. In this type of system, limewater is made up once, and then allowed to sit unstirred for as long as it takes the delivery system to send it to the aquarium. Since this type of reservoir can deliver limewater to the aquarium for several weeks, many aquarists have incorrectly concluded that substantial potency is lost as the limewater degrades, and that such a system will fail. Moreover, this assertion is why many aquarists claim that Nilsen reactors are simpler: because the simple delivery from a large reservoir won't work and that only daily mixing of limewater can be successful. In truth, it takes me five minutes to make up limewater every 2-3 weeks, so the idea that some other system is easier to use is simply unfounded. Later in this article I will show that such simple systems do not lose substantial potency, and hence should be considered by aquarists who have the space for large reservoirs.
     
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