jclaas - Need advice on lowering Nitrates and Phospates

Discussion in 'Water Parameters and Additives' started by jclaas, 11 Jun 2013.

  1. jclaas

    jclaas

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    Hi

    I second this request to reduce nitrates and phosphates as I am experiencing brown algae and want to introduce corals.
    Please advize me :)
    Aquarium:
    5weeks old
    200 l incl sump
    2clowns
    3kg live rock
    5cm shingle on top lf eggcrate with 2 powerheads in normal flow config
    Aerated and violent water inlet
    Wave maker
    T8 lighting x 2
    Sump:
    Inlet- wool, pot scourers, activated carbon in stocking ( daily clean)
    Refugium- chaeto with energysave cfl bulb over (not much growth)
    Dsb-arogonite below and fine sea sand above in 5l ice cream container
    Return- pump and red sea prizm skimmer.

    Current no3: 15-20ppm

    Please be kind enough to advize ne on some improve ments, if needed.
     
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  3. Diveshan

    Diveshan

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    Depending what coral you are wanting to introduce, 2xT8 arent optimal... id say your lighting has to be adjusted before ur no3 if you want to go LPS
     
  4. carlosdeandrade

    carlosdeandrade

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    Firstly, :welcomewave:
    You will need T5 globes to keep large polyp stoney corals (lps). How deep is your tank and the dsb isn't large enough for your system I would also increase the amount if live rock in your system. What corals have caught your eye? What Fish other than the clowns do you want to keep?
     
  5. butcherman

    butcherman Moderator MASA Contributor

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    @jclaas with brown algea and in a 5 week old tank, I am willing to bet it is diatoms. If this is the case it is part of the cycle. Perhaps post a picture of the tank and the algea and we can confirm.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  6. Visser

    Visser MASA Contributor

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    Please upload a pic of the tank. Will help us to help you.
     
  7. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    that might work for a 50L system. Way too small for your system size. If you really do not have the space for a DSB rather go for Orca cubes.
     
  8. Jayceew

    Jayceew

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    You will also need more liverock as mentioned above, 3kg is not close to enough for a 200l tank. I would suggest adding more liverock first and then leaving the tank again for a couple of weeks before adding any livestock.

    You already have fish so I would also recommend adding something like Special Blend for a couple of weeks as adding more liverock could cause a mini cycle again and you don't want to stress out the clowns in the tank.
     
  9. jclaas

    jclaas Thread Starter

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    Hi everyone

    Thank you for the feedback.

    I can confirm that the brown algae in the DT seems to be subsiding and my white bio rock is now taking a large amount of green algae. That seems to be good.

    I will agree that my ultimate amount of Lr will be 20 kg.
    I also want to keep soft coral in this tank.
    Please keel in mind it is a broodstock tank.

    I have a 1.2m tank which will be lps and sps.

    Wil upload jpegs soon.
     
  10. jclaas

    jclaas Thread Starter

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    @RIAAN

    My nitrate is at a constant state of 15.

    Will it be possible to get it to zero ever?

    I have space for another 5l dsb.

    I was told to use containers as it is easy to clean the dsb every year.

    Please advize
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  11. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    please post a picture of your display and your sump. Need to see what you got and what I can suggest. plus the rest of MASA community. Your sump do sound very small. and if that is the case then it could be better to try out the Orca Cubes as an alternative.
     
  12. HOT SAUCE

    HOT SAUCE

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    hi @jclaas I wouldn't recommend cleaning the DSB if that means taking out the sand. just leave it as is. at most you can syphon if there is waste buildup on the surface. if you want to reduce the nitrates the best way would be to add a pellet reactor. but if that's not an option I would suggest adding more live rock and perhaps dosing NoPoX.

    3 kg of live rock is not anywhere near what you should have in the tank. I would say between 20 and 30 kilos. there is good bacteria in your tank that lives in your live rock. by feeding it NoPoX the bacteria population will increase a great deal and would be able to consume the nitrates and phosphates in the water.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  13. jclaas

    jclaas Thread Starter

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    The bacteria I would be requiring to break down te nitrate to nitrogen process would be anaerobic Nitrobacillus. I do second the fact that this bacteria lives in rocks and sand due to the fact that oxygen is toxic to them.

    I want my system to be a natural system therefore I dont want to use any bi products.

    I hope I am correct in the fact that I want nitrate to zero. Zero nitrate means more nitrogen and doesnt green algae use light, nitrogen and phos to grow??? ##sorry nitrogen wil escape through air.
    I want to keep soft coral in this small tank.

    Mabe I must just get more lr like has been said numerous times.

    @hotsauce my dad stays 2hours away from manzini in swazi land :). He works for sheltam.

    20130506_182734.jpg

    20130506_174539.jpg
     
    Last edited: 4 Jul 2013
  14. jclaas

    jclaas Thread Starter

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    Think I should put the dsb where it was ?

    20130704_214508.jpg
     
  15. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Your sump design is not for a DSB, looks like both end dividers have the flow going underneath
    I would cut both panes out, and refit them so that both is overflow type. The central divider, can keep it or cut it out. Does not matter.

    Then I would fill the DSB section with new sand, take out the eggcrate. The sand you got in the icecream bucket I would keep as a final top layer.

    How think is the substrate level in your display, plus what is it? Seems very think. That might be the reason for your high readings. As it will be a detritus trap if too coarse
     
  16. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    what is that hang on skimmer rating?
     
  17. jclaas

    jclaas Thread Starter

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    Subtrate is 5cm high.

    It is broken shells.

    Looks like it could be a trap.

    I recently put in new, FINE aragonite for dsb. One size right through.
    So must I ditch the container dsb idea?
    And must I make 2 compartment dsb?

    Ti cut the mid glass out could make sump leak.
    Its 650l/h. Red sead primz energizer. Wull check website. Think it just just makes it.
     
  18. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    I would use the aragonite rather in the display as substrate.
    And get new playsand as substrate for the DSB. But need to wash it properly before you use it.

    A 2 chamber DSB is better than what you got.
     
    jclaas likes this.
  19. jclaas

    jclaas Thread Starter

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    Thanks riaan!!

    Where do I get playsand?

    See my short term goal is to just put in another 5l container with playsand for dsb like you said. And leave the glass like it is for one day when tank gets another face lift.

    Tho change the dt substrate ill have a problem becs undergravel filter has coarse shade cloth on. That sounds like a morse job!

    I saw a very nice dt subtrate in many tanks. Its Very white. Almost like fine stones. What ia it? I have that in mind. How thick must I make substrate for dt?
     
    Last edited: 4 Jul 2013
  20. jclaas

    jclaas Thread Starter

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    Cant I just take the undergravel filter completely out one day and just putt in a substrate?

    Many tanks are bare bottom. Dont see why I cant ditch the undergravel one day and put in a huge dsb...

    Im off to bed. Cheers
     
    Last edited: 4 Jul 2013
  21. carlosdeandrade

    carlosdeandrade

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    I don't want to upset the apple cart here, but did you know a DSB does take rather long to mature, and that you would have to be very patient when one actually goes this route in terms of adding fish?
    There are other various ways of actually lowering your nitrates, from sulphar and carbon denitrators (most expensive) to np pellets and orca cubes to even carbon dosing regimes, the cheapest being vodka and vinegar combination. (some threads on reef central that you can read : dosing vodka to bring down N and P - Reef Central Online Community AND dosing vodka to bring down N and P - Reef Central Online Community)

    I am not saying a DSB is not the way to go but you do need space and time for this type of filtration system along with perfect flow over the DSB.

    Do some research before deciding on a DSB or any other form of NO3, PO4 reduction.
     
    Last edited: 5 Jul 2013
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