Is this legal?

Discussion in 'The Sump' started by chikaboo, 17 May 2011.

  1. chikaboo

    chikaboo

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    Hi there all in the legal and insurance game ..... I have the following situation and not sure how to handle it ... I'm running my electronic security company from 1994 and never had a situation like this .... We had installed surveillance cameras for a tavern about 2 years ago and on the easter long weekend some of their equipment stopped working .... Upon some of my testing we found the pc where the camera's were connected to be stopping starting and the power supply and about 6 out of the 16 camera's blown ...we removed the damaged equipment and sent it away to our suppliers fora second opinion ...in the meanwhile I loaned him some of my demo stuff ... we drew up the quotes for the replacing and sent them through for a claim from his insurance .... An assessor was appointed and he brought his own approved on the panel guys to test the equipment ... i had no problem with that but now they they have taken the liberty of doing the repairs saying that they ordered the equipment already ... They did all the repairs that I quoted on which means after testing the damaged equipment for the third time the results were the same .... Ok I understand if the price was out but we using different brands of equipment .... Being electronic gadgets what we bought 2 years ago stuff has changed but should the insurance company at least paid the client out what they felt was the cheaper quote and let him decide who does the repairs ... What about all my extra effort to assist the client while his stuff was damaged ...... To me it looks like the assessor and service provider are up to some hankey pankey .....
     
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  3. KeeganP

    KeeganP

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    I don’t know alot about insurance, But I do know of close friends that recently had a break in and goods were taken, My friend couldn’t wait for insurance to pay out so he went ahead and bought a TV, after showing receipts for proof of purchase they did an evaluation on the old TV and paid out for that. I’m sure the something could've been done here, had the client been strict with the insurance people I told them this is what he wants to do. I feel you are right when you say there is some hankey pankey going on, because that is a win win situation for the insurance and their "repair" people and "suppliers"
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 17 May 2011
  4. gavster

    gavster

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    Their broker could have fought this for you before they spent any money. But now that they have, you may have a problem. No work is supposed to be done until the insurance has ascertained that they will even pay out and that they will allow an unapproved 3rd party to do the repairs. Get the client to get onto their broker asap and fight this for you. Good luck!
     
  5. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    when ever in doubt, call the insurance ombudsman
     
  6. robertkukla

    robertkukla

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  7. chikaboo

    chikaboo Thread Starter

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    Sorry my bad guys ... I didn't explain properly ... When i said they carried on with repairs I meant the "approved installer" and the assessor ..... The client is totally in the dark and wanted me to do the repairs but was told by the guy who supposed only to be testing the equipment that they were authourized to go ahead .... Besides with me he was even prepared to take what insurance was paying .... fill in the balance and let me do the work .....
     
  8. Jaco Schoeman

    Jaco Schoeman MASA Contributor

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    A couple of things here that I may add... And again this is another case of clients not being "educated" correctly by their insurance partners...

    Firstly, in all insurance contracts the insurer has the right to repair, replace or refund the client as they see fit... In other words, I have a Samsung Series 50" 4 Plamsa TV that needs to be replaced after a loss. I get a quote from Cats Digital for R8000 and from Sounds Great for R8300.

    The insurer however is in agreement with Game, and they can replace the TV for R7500 - which it then will do, as it is in their right to do so. This also applies in refunding (cash in lieu) and also repairing.

    If you supplied an "ABC" camera, and they can supply "XYZ" at the same spec, then they can, they are just not allowed to "downgrade" the client, and the client is not entitled to "upgrade" on what they had. If the item involved has been discontinued, the insurer will replace with an item that is the closest to the spec of the original. So having a 74cm CRT TV cannot be replaced with a 65" 3D LED TV, but if no 74cm TV's are available, they will supply the next best thing, which is a 32" LCD TV for example.

    Secondly, their broker should have given them Business Interruption cover, with the extension of Increased Cost of working. This would have allowed him to rent the additional camera's whilst this claim was being looked at. He could have rented the camera's from you Chika, so you would not have lost the income at least.

    But in the end of the day, unfortunately, the insurer can decide on whom they want to use to replace. The only thing left for you is to prove that they breached the indemnity rule, by giving the client new equipment that is not as good as the equipment you would have supplied.

    "Indemnity is putting the client back in the same position he has prior to the loss..."

    So if your camera's had infra red, and the new ones does not, the client can have them remove the camera's and force them to replace the ones he had. if however the specs are the same or even better, then I am sorry chika but you will have the loss.

    On a side note: Guys, always remember that insurance is a business like all others, and an insurance company will always replace at current values, and they are all in agreement with preffered suppliers, getting stuff much cheaper.

    If you have a laptop for example, look up new values every two months and update your policy. I am in the game myself, and I had my laptop insured for R16000, as that is new value, but four months later when I had a loss, they only paid out R12000 as that was new replacement value, and I still paid premium on R16000. So make sure to update your stuff REGULARLY...
     
  9. chikaboo

    chikaboo Thread Starter

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    Thanks for input guys especially Jaco ... I dont have a problem with another co. doing work ... they even have offered to compensate me for my efforts to assist the client while his stuff was being sorted out ... What irks me is that I hear this from the client but from the assessor he says they still testing .... Theres also one more snag ... I still have a balance of warrantee on the rest of the equipment that did not get damaged but not that that is kind of compromised coz his new pc and dvr card and power supplies are not from my supplier so now what happens if my remaining stuff gets damaged due to his "new" stuff ....
     
  10. Jaco Schoeman

    Jaco Schoeman MASA Contributor

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    Assessors can be dodgy!! I have heard terrifying stories of assessors. If the client feels there is any "misconduct" he can report the assessor to the insurance company, and even the ombuds. They will investigate.

    Then, under your clients insurance policy, he should have a Section called "Electronic Equipment" and under this section there should be and Extension called "Incompatibility cover" which should carry the losses in the event that new goods replaced does not comply with older equipment, thus having the whole lot upgraded to work with the new stuff.

    An example is a PC CPU. If the CPU processors has 1000 pins as an example, and they replace with a CPU that has 1500 pins, then that CPU will not work, as the motherboard is not compattible. So they will then replace the motherboard as well.

    Hope this makes sense... :p
     
  11. chikaboo

    chikaboo Thread Starter

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    I was happy for the other guy to replace whatever he wanted in the pc as my quote did not include the repairs to the pc ... What worries me is that he decided it was better instead of both of us getting work he rather eat the whole pie and replace pc + recording card + camera's as his main line of business is pc repairs and the hard work is already done on the initial installation ... now its just plug and play with the damaged stuff ... no new cables to run ... no intricate crimping of connectors ......
     
  12. durleo

    durleo

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    I was insured by budget and had my laptop valued for R14000 - After 3 year with it I dropped it and suubmitted a claim. The insurance company wanted to replace it with a cheap R3000 laptop and their comment was that it was of the same spec as my old laptop.
    I told them that my laptop is critical part of my business and a cheap laptop will not suffice.
    I then had a brainwave and told them that since my laptop was a Packard Bell - I want a packard bell for the same value . Their supplier could not supply packard bell as only incredible connection do it. I told the assessor that I had have a Tag Heure watch insured with them and if it was stolen will they replace it with a Casio cos it can also tell the time :lol: I think your only way out is if your customer makes a moan about the service and threathens to take his business somewhere else. Its not fair that you build a relationship wiht your customer and do the hard and technical work and someone else comes in and gets the paycheck.

    hope you get closure!!
     
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