is potassium a necessity when using np pellets?

Discussion in 'Water Parameters and Additives' started by duanead, 4 Jul 2012.

  1. duanead

    duanead

    Joined:
    21 Mar 2011
    Posts:
    323
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Johannesburg
    Hi there

    I would just like to know when running np pellets and having sps that is growing and looking in good condition,should one still dose potassium when running np pellets or is that only when your sps is starting to turn into a dull colour?
     
  2. AdS Guest




    to hide all adverts.
  3. brentch

    brentch

    Joined:
    11 Jul 2011
    Posts:
    659
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    amanzimtexas
    Only when it drops below NSW levels of about 410ppm. I don't think colour change is an accurate enough indicator, especially when other factors like iodine could be a problem (apparently with pellets). Salifert have a new test kit for Potassium @ about R170 down here in KZN... So it should be cheaper in JHB.
     
  4. brentch

    brentch

    Joined:
    11 Jul 2011
    Posts:
    659
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    amanzimtexas
    @williet... What has your K consumption been like?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  5. brentch

    brentch

    Joined:
    11 Jul 2011
    Posts:
    659
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    amanzimtexas
    Sorry forgot the first part of your Q... Yes you should probably dose, but use a kit to determine your consumption rate. overdosing can cause RTN on your acros and montis. It is also suggested to keep your parameters close to NSW, especially dkH, because anything too far above a 8dKH can cause RTN. Iodine can also be depleted quite fast.
     
  6. Kunhardt

    Kunhardt

    Joined:
    21 Oct 2008
    Posts:
    5,234
    Likes Received:
    90
    Location:
    East London
    Yip potassium is one of the main elements to watch when running a low nutrient system and one I think a lot of people forget to keep an eye on when going this route.
     
  7. williet

    williet Look at the shiny LEDs!!!

    Joined:
    29 Nov 2010
    Posts:
    1,141
    Likes Received:
    25
    Location:
    Amanzimtoti
    Hi Brent I have not checked in a while :blush: Will do a test tonight to see the difference !
     
  8. duanead

    duanead Thread Starter

    Joined:
    21 Mar 2011
    Posts:
    323
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Johannesburg
    Thanks that's why I'm asking cause I've never bothered with it but ill get myself a test kit and if need be ill dose,thank you
     
  9. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    6 May 2007
    Posts:
    3,149
    Likes Received:
    171
    Location:
    Bracken
    Potassium has not been proven to be required by corals, nor is it consumed at levels which cannot be maintained via water changes, even in a heavily stocked system....
    However, The whole potassium bandwagon is something brought about in zeoville, where it is of some significance, but then again only due to the fact that some of the zeolites used by mr pohl in his mix has an affinity for potassium. Again, it has not been proven that our corals need it, but i guess it is in nsw for a reason........ And the reason is that all lifeforms requir K. But again, just because it make corals appear more colourful, does not mean we have to dose it.... Whats the word.... Marketing hype! So to answer your question, in short, dont waste money on a test kit, or a suppliment.
    Amazing how quickly people jump on the bandwagon and thow rife the misunderstandings are about ulns. If you are using zeovit stones, perhaps worth looking at..... Biopellets do not have an affinity for any metal, mineral, element, so again, additions of food and water changes should take care of your k demand.
     
    Last edited: 4 Jul 2012
  10. Kunhardt

    Kunhardt

    Joined:
    21 Oct 2008
    Posts:
    5,234
    Likes Received:
    90
    Location:
    East London
    Some nice info Ivan, I have read similar thoughts by other people on potassium not being proven to be needed by corals, but at the same time I have read stories as well where people who have been running ULNS have had them crash due to lack of Potassium...and others who's corals were battling in ULNS but after the addition of Potassium saw remarked improvement in corals health, growth and colour... although I would assume that there can just be a coincidence and that the number of factors involved in reasons for corals decline in health can be too numberous to mention dont you think maybe there is something to all this..after all if it is only consumed by the zeolites in zeovit systems and systems crash due to this as a result doesnt it mean that they were therefore reliant on the potassium in some way or other after all?
     
  11. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

    Joined:
    7 Feb 2009
    Posts:
    8,384
    Likes Received:
    286
    Location:
    Joe's Mountain
    My thoughts. Potassium, as in potassium permanganate, is a steriliser/substance to kill bacteria, as is iodine. Is it not possible that the addition or lack of potassium and iodine, not being confused with the ability of element to sterilize/kill harmful bacteria, rather than its lack of to cause corals to stress. In other words, the Potassium and iodine are a medication, rather than a necessary element the corals require to survive.
    Just some thoughts.
     
    Last edited: 4 Jul 2012
  12. brentch

    brentch

    Joined:
    11 Jul 2011
    Posts:
    659
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    amanzimtexas
    I think for the purposes of increasing levels of K, if you had to use potassium permanganate, you'd end up with purple water with the amount needed to raise the levels... I think K chloride and sulphate is used by seachem and brightwells etc.

    You are perfectly right though, K MNO4 is used to treat fungal infections?
     
  13. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    6 May 2007
    Posts:
    3,149
    Likes Received:
    171
    Location:
    Bracken
    Yep, as mentioned, in a zeovit system, the zeolites suck out K, and as life forms require K, there is something to it. HOWEVER, we need to remember that zeovit is the operative word here, and not ulns or biopellets or general carbon dosing.
    I thought this hobby has moved past the "i added x to my tank and it looks oh so much better now" methology..... Guess it is still part of what keeps some companies in the hobby going...... Perhaps one day an appendix to the cpa to label aquarium products truthfully and list ingredients.... Yeah right....
     
  14. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    6 May 2007
    Posts:
    3,149
    Likes Received:
    171
    Location:
    Bracken
    An interesting thought nj, although i suspect it not to be the case....... Bacterial count on holobiont surfaces is huge...... And bith those substances are not selective in the bac strains they annihilate.... Potassium sulphate and chloride is what is commonly used....... Perhaps an overripe banana cube from time to time.....
     
  15. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    12 Mar 2008
    Posts:
    9,733
    Likes Received:
    785
    Location:
    Cape Town
    Interesting debate. I think it's the permangenate that sterelizers not the potassium part. Potassium is normally supplemented as a chloride salt.
    Met a very respected reefer, had more sps in his tank than water, he swore by potassium and he showed ow much his corals grew before and after he started dosing it. Think there may be some merit in dosing it, but then you need to measure your parameters before deciding wether or not you need too.
     
  16. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    6 May 2007
    Posts:
    3,149
    Likes Received:
    171
    Location:
    Bracken
    :tt2:Interesting that you should mention the growth thing...... No scientific evidence to support increased growth rates, however....... I wont rule it out. Corals can use K in the same manner as it uses Sr and even Mg, i.e. by using it as a sub for Ca. Again though, no evidence that increased ca increases skeletal growth rate.... But with elevated alk, scleractinians will use any of the above to deposit onto their skeletal matrix....... Just like they would use boron and Titanium in similar ratios deposited in their skeleton. Ooh, i can see some new suppliments in the pipeline..........

    Now.... With slightly elevated K or regularly supplimented K or Sr etc, increased skeletal growth will likely be experienced..... Of course elevated alk or regularly supplimented buffer is a prerequisite... But that is skeletal growth, and not overall growth, i.o.w. it excludes tissue growth. Effectively yielding a brittle fast growing skeleton and a thin tissue layer...... Healthy.......? But probably more colourful, ass less space for the host to farm its zooxanthellae!
    Remember that in very simple terms, skeletal deposit in corals can be seen as dumping of substances the coral does not need for tissue growth... The corals own municipal dumping ground......:blush:

    Living on the edge, add some amino acids to assist the tissue and allow a slightly increased safety net....
    Did someone say zeovit:tt2:
     
    Last edited: 5 Jul 2012
  17. brentch

    brentch

    Joined:
    11 Jul 2011
    Posts:
    659
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    amanzimtexas
    Just because the skeletal aragonite doesn't use K doesn't mean living tissue doesn't need it... Indeed, just for osmoregulation- K is important, even if not for incorporation into living tissue. Animals spend a lot of energy on this, and if it can spend less on maintaining homeostasis, then more energy can be used for growth...

    Remember "potassium channels" in Biology class? They are used during action potential reactions in neural cells and muscles etc...

    If corals do not get K from the plankton they catch, they'll absorb it from the water.
     
  18. brentch

    brentch

    Joined:
    11 Jul 2011
    Posts:
    659
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    amanzimtexas
    Sorry, I got excited and didn't read the rest of your post Ivan! Apologies!:blush:
     
  19. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    6 May 2007
    Posts:
    3,149
    Likes Received:
    171
    Location:
    Bracken
    No worries, yes, correct, atp and the calcium carbonate "pump"...? But will it free up resources if there is more.....Nope, did not do bio at school.. So all this is a bit above koraalkwekerkoos' fireplace.
    Its not that it does not use it in its skeleton, as it does, think around 100ppm on a typical assay , but the point is it puts it there because it does not need or incorporate it into tissue in qtys affecting params to be of concern in non zeolith run systems. And then again, there ste zeoliths which dont have an affinity for K. Worth looking into....

    Sorry for derailing the thread...... A bit
     
    Last edited: 5 Jul 2012
  20. brentch

    brentch

    Joined:
    11 Jul 2011
    Posts:
    659
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    amanzimtexas
    Well you sure know your stuff!

    Ya for sure, I think it also depends on how often water changes are done... dKH and Ca are quite rapidly used up in systems and even if water changes are done weekly, they do deplete over time if heavily stocked. I agree though, if you keep up with water changes weekly, the other elements like K, Mg, I etc are a non issue, and don't need attention. What is important is that one keeps parameters at NSW (what the coral's biochem pathways are used to operating in).

    So @duanead; add the pellets, buy a K test kit, and watch what happens when/if K depletes. If it does deplete and corals do start looking sad, dose...:biggrin:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  21. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    6 May 2007
    Posts:
    3,149
    Likes Received:
    171
    Location:
    Bracken
    :lol:
     
Recent Posts

Loading...
Similar Threads - potassium necessity using Forum Date
Potassium Testkits Test Kits, Controllers, Reactors and Dosers 1 Oct 2016
salifert potassium test kit ► Sponsor Request Forum 2 Oct 2014
potassium test kit wanted ► Sponsor Request Forum 27 Feb 2014
Potassium Test Water Parameters and Additives 8 May 2013
Salifert Potassium(K+) Test Kits Test Kits, Controllers, Reactors and Dosers 25 Jun 2012
Dosing Potassium Water Parameters and Additives 17 May 2012
Potassium Test Kits ► Sponsor Request Forum 16 May 2012