How many fish can be introduced simultaneously safely?

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by LikesFish, 20 Mar 2010.

  1. LikesFish

    LikesFish

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    In my 90gallon with about 80lbs of live rock - assuming water parameters are good and you have a powerful skimmer (Bubbleking 180) how many fish can be introduced at the same time without negatively affecting either the tank or the fish? Asking since it is sometimes better to add certain fish at the same time due to territorial issues.

    In specific I want to add a Fire Goby, Ocelaris Clown and a small Foxface at the same time. Is this ok? I never had a tank this small before so I am unsure...
     
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  3. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    Flip, sorry Waldo i just spent 20m typing out a response and got a error deleting the post. I will try and recover. But leave the fire goby for now.

    Got to attend to Power outs in Bedfordview area. Will be back shortly.
     
  4. magman

    magman

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    Gooi them in at once, i would rather you add the same kinds in at once, eg clowns at once,
     
  5. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    :nono: Never just gooi anything in at once with out proper planing. Mr31415, Likes Fish has lots of experience on reef keeping.

    Waldo.
    The fox face will require a steady supply of veggies. So you need to have an Algae farm thriving. Whilst they help with the gardening they do load the filter.

    Clowns need to be added in a group or pair. Best is after an anemone is present and your tank needs to mature some first. in my experience the clowns become very aggressive like damsels if they do not have a house. I would delay the clown addition a little.

    Fire gobies do best in pairs. Do not let the myth/sales blab that they do best in schools convince you. You will end up with 1 or 2 anyway. These fish are very shy and need to be added first in and established aquarium. When i say established i mean one that has a good growth of corals and fauna.

    Not fully understanding what you envisage for your tank it is difficult to advise.

    SPS dominated?
    Softies?
    Exotic species?

    Yeah need more info.:thumbup:
     
  6. Anemone

    Anemone

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    I don’t recommend adding a group of clownfish in 90 gallon. One pair will be fine, and the two don’t necessarily have to be added at the same time. Anymore than one pair and you’re pushing your luck in this size tank.

    Yes, clownfish are damsels, but in my experience, the Ocellaris is normally pretty peaceful compared to some of the other species of clownfish. You may occasionally see some aggression between male and female, but they typically work it out. Just make sure you are not adding two females.

    Also, clownfish do not have to have an anemone. They will be fine without one. They may however find something else to call home, which is not always a good thing as they can damage some coral. Once in captivity, there is not a guarantee that a clownfish will take to an anemone.
     
  7. LikesFish

    LikesFish Thread Starter

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    Hmmm interesting. My clown fishes that I had before were also introduced first in to the tank, and they adapted fine. One of them (the smaller one) was caught by my large boxer shrimp but... The other one lived alone for 1.5 years and was very happy. He took refuge in my large colt coral.

    I already got the fire fish and the ocelaris as I have had both before and they are quite hardy and easy to keep (and peaceful) - hence good for the first fish.

    My main concern was whether I can introduce a foxface with them seeing that that would be three fish at the same time. I am wondering how big impact that would have on the bioload. I have introduced 5 fish simultaneously in my previous 145g (anthias) without issue, but I am not sure how to scale bioload/feeding with tank volume - whether it is linear or not.
     
  8. magman

    magman

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    I "gooi" upto 20 fish at times into my tank and sump after a weekend catching session, i dont think the 3 fish you wanted will affect yr bioload that it stops the world from spinning, 90gallons is big enough. I would of thought rather add all the gobies you want at once, especially true with some species that are territorial. Also yr clowns do not have to have an anenome to be happy as was stated
     
  9. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    I agree with what you say 100% Brenda.

    @magman i never said that clown fish need an anemone. I said that it is best to add them when an anemone is present. This is because the clowns will quickly recognise this as home and will be a lot happier. But as Brenda says there is no guarantee that clowns will host in an anemone. Especially true with captive bread clowns.

    Adding 20 odd small fish at one time to your established mature tank might not cause a problem, but to a tank that has just cycled is another issue. Other newbies reading this will get the impression it is OK to go out and fill their tank with 20 odd fish the first time they stock up. I am sure you agree this is not the case. :thumbup:

    Waldo the fox face with the other two fish should be fine. Do you have a lot of algae in your tank or will you need to supplement the diet with nori?
     
  10. crispin

    crispin

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    magman, just to build on what NJ is saying its risky to put too many fish into a tank at once, especially as in Likesfishes case the tank is new and not matured yet.

    IF you have a well matured biological filtration system you can add a number of fish at a time, but this drastically increases the bioload of the system and the biological filtration takes a while to ctach up. This 'lag time' plays havoc with the system and the nitrogen cycles can lead to spikes, which can at best be uncomfortable for the fish and at worse spiral quickly out of controll leading to excess ammonia, nitrites and nitrates, leading to additional death (on a microscopic level first and then a macro level secondly) and thsoe newly added fish really battle or die with a combination of stress and poor water quality.

    In short its never a good idea to over load a system (especially new) by adding too many fish at once.

    the way Likesfish is aiming at things is by far the best method.
     
  11. crispin

    crispin

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    out of interest likesfish are you going for Siganus magnificus (magnificant fox face) or Siganus unimaculatus (one spot fox face) ?
     
    Last edited: 21 Mar 2010
  12. Anemone

    Anemone

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    If it were me, I would wait. I agree with what Crispin said about maturity. How long has this tank been running and what other livestock do you have in the tank?
     
  13. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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  14. jacquesb

    jacquesb Retired Moderator

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    IF I may part some "wisdom" (or perhaps "banter"? ;)) -

    Waldo - I would go ahead. If YOU are sure that you would be able to keep the lifestock alive, then by all means - go ahead and add all....

    I mean - I know of a certain reefkeeper (ex- perhaps?) - who kept close to 40 fish in a 1.5 meter tank. His bio-load would BLOW the HECK out of "normal reefkeeping rules".

    BUT, he was extremely diligent water changes - AND his skimmer was WAY WAY over-rated. And except for a power-loss - he never lost a SINGLE fish.

    For me? I also keep more than 30 fish in my tank. And currently, my skimmer is slightly "under-rated" (because instead of 2 recirc pumps, I am only running one) ....

    I do believe that experience REALLY REALLY counts in how / what a person run's their tank.

    Just to add to that - I would perhaps just ensure to dose some extra bacteria - to ensure an increase in the bacteria to "add" to the current bacteria to ensure 100% survivability of the fish.
     
  15. magman

    magman

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    This thread is turning to a bioload thread. I wont say how many fish i got in my system, if i did say, Crispy's fish would even get white spot! Or the amount and the size of the fish i feed to nemmies, my nutrients are obviously sky high, I could never keep sps, but my softies and lps thrive on it.
     
  16. LikesFish

    LikesFish Thread Starter

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    The reason I wanted to add the Foxface was due to the nice steady growth of hair algae I have.
     
  17. LikesFish

    LikesFish Thread Starter

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    Siganus unimaculatus. The one I got actually has a heart shaped spot... Quite cool.
     
  18. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    @magman, LikesFish is asking a bio load question. He only went shopping for and started assembling his 90g tank on the 27 Feb. LikesFish is both experienced & passionate about his reefing. He would never add livestock if the water parameters were not suitable. Take some time out bud and read his www.Waldo.com site and you will appreciate what we are saying.
     
  19. LikesFish

    LikesFish Thread Starter

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    Thanks NJ, but as we all know even if you spend your life in the hobby we will still only know a fraction of what we really should be knowing in order to fully understand all interactions and dynamics in a reef tank. And I have only been involved in the hobby since 2006 - hardly a lifetime.

    My personal opinion is that it should be fine - and that feeding patterns will dictate the bioload more than the actual fish themselves. Mineralisation is a rather quick process in most tanks - especially one with a sand bed, so the ammonia from the fish' gills will be broken down quickly and detritus should be skimmed out or consumed by amphipods/brittles stars/etc. Denitrification is harder and takes longer, and I would say that this is the biggest concern here - to ensure Nitrates do not build up and stress the inverts and the coral (as the fish will not care about nitrate levels achievable in the reef aquarium).

    To confirm my expectations I will be monitoring water parameters closely and post my findings here, maybe we all can learn something qualitatively.

    Thanks for all the input so far. Always good to see different people's opinions/perspectives.
     
  20. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    Yup i thought so. Feed the fish meaty bits sparingly as that will load the filter. The gardening he dose will not effect the filter too much. He is not 180mm is he?
     
  21. LikesFish

    LikesFish Thread Starter

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    Nope all my fish are tiny. Clown, fire goby are small, and the foxface is no longer than 9cm
     
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