how do you get a Jumping bean and flame angel to co-exist?

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by Barlan, 22 Aug 2012.

  1. Barlan

    Barlan

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    hi all

    The answer i'm looking for here is "yes" as well as HOW to get them to co-exist.

    short history:
    we have a 130 RSM, a few other fish, but the jumping bean is my concern as it's also a dwarf angel. we've had the jumping bean for about 10 days now, its only 3cm long. this past sat, we saw some beautiful flame angels and purchased the smallest one because we wanted it small and because the tank is small. it was around 4cm long, so slightly larger than the JB.

    after acclimating, we put her (making it a her) in the tank and she swam around a bit, all the other fish crowded around, inspecting the new arrival but the only fish that was harassing her was the JB, this caused her to swim to the top left of the tank where the water flow pumps are. her other safe spot was at the bottom of the tank near the rock.

    so after a few hours, we made an acclimation box for her using an addis lunchbox and a drill, put her in there with some live rock populated with algae to eat and left her over night. sunday she was still fine, but then we decided to let her out. she was chased a bit by the JB. on monday morning, she was still alive and swimming in her corner. monday evening she was dead. :( RIP Flame...

    she didnt seem sick, she didnt have any spots or any visible defects. she swam a little funny when we put her in the tank tho. it looked like the back panel was her "ground" so she was swimming sideways. other than that, she was swimming fine when she was at the bottom of the tank and seemed happy. no one besides the JB was harassing her. so not too much stress there. she also didnt have any signs of being pecked to death.

    so as traumatic as this was for me, cause i get attached very easily, i want to try introduce another flame angel, but this time, using a proper clear acclimation or breeding box - whichever looks best for the size of the fish- and leave it in there for a week or 2 depending on the advise given and then only introducing it.

    i know the general rule is one angel per tank unless its big, and 130l is not big, but these are small fish and ppl have done it.

    so if anyone has done this, pls advise as to what i should do. i really want a flame angel. this sounds selfish i know, but they are so beautiful and i feel like it was my fault that she died. she was so placid. if i had done something another way, she might still be alive.

    another thing, in many posts i've read, ppl always say add the flames last, why is that?

    thanks for all your help guys. much appreciated.
     
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  3. mandarinman

    mandarinman

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    Take them both out. Shuffle tank to change territories? Put back? But if the bean don't like ya face it don't liks ya face
     
  4. Kunhardt

    Kunhardt

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    130L is way too small for two dwarf angels...jumping beans are pretty aggro at the best of times as well...so unfortunately it was a disaster waiting to happen.

    One can keep more than a singular dwarf angel in a tank provided its got enough room for them to create their own territories and enough rock work for each to get away from the other and hide when need be. In a tank that size I'm afraid it's not likely they won't come in contact with each other all the time and thus the fighting...I have 4 dwarf angels in my 6ft tank and they still fight, there is just enough room and hiding spots that they don't always come in contact with one another and if a fight breaks out one can escape to its own area of the tank.

    If you want to keep a flame angel in that tank the only safe solution is going to be removing the jumping bean.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  5. Helga

    Helga

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    Hi Barlan, sorry to hear about your loss! always sad when we lose a fish. Although 130l ia small for 2 Angels....with the correct introduction it might work.

    The second Angel to be added should be the bigger and more aggressive one. It gives the more timid one time to adjust and find its safe spot without being hasseled. Add the second Angel a few hours after lights out. I have added all my "same species" fish this way and have always had success. Hope it works for you!
     
  6. carlosdeandrade

    carlosdeandrade

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    Morning @Helga, interesting, so I have a Eibli, rerrange rock work (what a mission, but after seeing how some of my peeps scaping in here, mine looks like a rubbish dump:blush:) add a larger flame at night, things should be fine? Sounds like a good principal.
    What did you do for your tangs, want to move my Naso into a FOWLR system that has a sailfin already?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  7. Helga

    Helga

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    Hi @carlosdeandrade,
    Adding "potential" problem fish at night is what worked for me so far and is just one of many ways to add new fish. I have not tried it with Angels, but have used it with all my Tangs and Anthias. My Purple Tang came from my previous tank and was a potential problem to add more tangs after him. I added my Kole, Regal, Naso, 3 Yellows, Copperband....all way after lightsout when the fish has settled in their regular spots. Tomorrow morning they wake up to a new kid on the block!... Up to now it has worked for me!...

    Have to add though, the bigger the tank, the more space they have to keep out of each others way!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  8. carlosdeandrade

    carlosdeandrade

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  9. Barlan

    Barlan Thread Starter

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    thanks for the replies guys. i'll consider my options and if i choose to try introduce another flame, i'll try each method. i dont want to stress them out tho, so i might need to choose one method that seems like it'll work for me. unfortunately, rearranging rock work isnt really an option.

    i'll update if i choose to try add an angel. else, thanks for all the info
     
  10. Junz

    Junz

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    my JB and flame get along well. no issues so far
     
  11. Kunhardt

    Kunhardt

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    how bigs the tank though? not a 100L system I take it?

    I agree that that can work in most cases Helga...I have used that method with tangs and other fish and been very successful and until space was an issue with the dwarves (obviously I have reached my capacity) it worked well with them as well. But now with 4 in the tank I have tried 1 bicolor, 1 eibli and 2 Golden Pygmy's over the years to only fail...the others already in the tank killed them all.

    Dwarves seem to be very aggro with other dwarves of similar shape, size and colour and it doesnt seem to go away with time...I think I am lucky with the 4 I have at the moment because they are all completely different from one another...saying this though they still squabble now and then but not to the point which happens in most cases where they will hunt each other down and constantly attack the weaker one until its dead. This is why I say that its not a good idea to add another dwarf to a tank that size its just too small.

    You may even be that the Jumping Bean will attack newly added tank mates from here on in...they can be very aggro once dominant in the tank and are known to attack other new additions in some cases.
     
  12. carlosdeandrade

    carlosdeandrade

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    Have a Eibli that I added last to my system, my dominant green chromis tried to dominate it as well, in a matter of ten minutes the angel had placed it in it's place, was quite amusing to watch, no everyone just gets alone just fine!
     
  13. Barlan

    Barlan Thread Starter

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    @Kunhardt, my system is 130l. ironically, the jumping bean isn't the dominant fish in the tank.

    i'm still considering the flame, cause it is an expensive purchase, but i feel it would make an awesome addition to my tank and probably my last in this tank.

    problem #2, how to catch the jumping bean!!! i cant take out its home, cause its a rock that forms the base of my rock structure and its putty'ed in place. i will need to make a plan.

    the flame did fight back tho. she would turn around and peck him back, but for some odd reason, something went wrong during the course of monday.
     
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  14. Kunhardt

    Kunhardt

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    If you are determind to try a Flame and the JB (I still say dont, but its up to you) I would go with an already established one from a fellow reefers tank...this one will be stronger, healthier and will be free of any stress from travelling long distances and already used to tank life...and so when picked on will be better off to defend itself.

    The flame would have fought back...they not babies :p but after shipping, new environment et etc its going to have been weak and not able to fully defend itself and get stressed out a lot easier.

    For future reference when u see a fish sitting in the top corner of a tank like that its BAD...I think they have to be really stressed out and unhappy with their surroundings to land up there...every fish I have had thats been bullied and fled to the top corner of a tank has never settled back into the tank and has landed up perishing. :(
     
  15. leslie hempel

    leslie hempel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    jumping beans are probably one of the most agressive dwarf angels you will find, they will even fight with an angel of completley differing colour,, eg: black bean..

    even if yours is timid, i would consider removing as a flame has simular colouration, and reintroduce when the flame has settled...

    beautiful fish, i hope to catch more of them this season but i will add the smallest one i can find... to curb agression...
     
  16. Kunhardt

    Kunhardt

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    One for me too please! :p
     
  17. Barlan

    Barlan Thread Starter

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    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  18. archiecrain

    archiecrain

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    Personally.....I think you should learn from 1st try and find a different tank mate that the JB will not be as aggressive towards.

    I have a JB in my tank of similar size and it is virtually impossible to add any other fish, especially one with bright colours, learnt the hard way many times, so now Ive realised and accepted the he doesnt like having other fish added.

    Recently lost a shrimp goby to my JB and clown, of all fish I would have thought it would have been a safe addition.

    Point is once he has his territory set THATS IT no intruders allowed EVER!

    Not the anwser you would like probably, but save yourself the heartache....
     
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