How do we Educate / control the Industry

Discussion in 'Diving, Collecting and Environmental Discussions' started by Neil H, 14 Feb 2011.

  1. Neil H

    Neil H Moderator MASA Contributor

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    I have stayed away from LFS's for the better part of a year since the last move and the slow progress i am making with my new tank, but with the goal now in sight i allowed myself to pop in and have a look around, as it so happens i was at a non sponsor LFS which i have been into on the odd occasion before .... i bought a Naso tang which is doing great anyway..........

    I was feeling in an otherwise mood and proceeded to play dumb and ask some real DOFF questions ..... I saw a large what looked like a magnifica nennie in the tank, i asked the assistant what lighting i needed for this to which he replied and i quote "you need blue and white globes and a nemo" i asked what sort of lights and he said anything so long as they blue and white, i asked if the Thick ones like for fresh water would be ok and he said absolutley. I had to have a nemo though as he said they definately do not survive without one. He was billed at the marine expert at the shop !!!!!!!! and he maintains several tanks............. it was in a nutshell the most shocking marine advice i have heard in a long time .....

    how then do we as hobbiests and in general very knowlegable marine hobbiests change this ...........

    Let me say this simply ..... ignorance and lack of education is killing livestock.... our hobby will become heavily requlated with unreasonable rules UNLESS we take matters into our own hands and prevent this ...... !!!!!!!! we need to do something
     
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  3. rakabos

    rakabos

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    I know what you mean. In my short time in marines i have learnt a lot and much more in general than what LFS people know.

    I hope you educated them a bit
     
  4. danimal

    danimal

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    the most common thread i've seen in LFS's (both sponsors and non) is that "no, that anemone is not bleached, white is its natural colour. beautiful, isn't it?" or some variation of that.

    having had arguments with several store employees that get you nowhere, there are a few shops i no longer even think about going to on principle.

    you're right, neil, something must be done. ignoring this problem does us no good, it just results in more clowns and nemmies being ordered and sold to unsuspecting parents who's kids have seen finding nemo too many times. a month later when both are dead, it's just another hobby that didn't work out for the family. yet the shop has made a profit and knows they sell well regardless and so more and more are ordered...
     
  5. Neil H

    Neil H Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    the more i think about this the more i think there is a need for self regulation by hobbiests for hobbiests ........ yes we can ???
     
  6. danimal

    danimal

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    what do you propose?
     
  7. Neil H

    Neil H Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Well i propose a comittee that sets up a code of conduct for the marine ornamental industry in south africa ..... things like Marcels plight and that of poor choices of livestock highlight this sort of thing ..... if we were to set up some parameters and codes of good practice, it would go a long way to setting the framework for further things like courses etc

    things like understanding propper filtration in all its array of formats

    things like importing the most sustainable fish and corals
    we know what is good practice and what is not but it is not written down anywhere, we expect people like DAFF to be reasonable but we cant even makle solid propossals endorsed by hobbiests
     
  8. robertkukla

    robertkukla

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    this would be a great idea :thumbup:
     
  9. danimal

    danimal

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    how would one go about getting this legislation legally implemented? how to force LFS's to abide? or do you set up a club of sorts and try get everyone to join, with a strict set of rules for membership? and then hope that non-affiliated places lose out on business via word of mouth?
     
  10. Boegie

    Boegie

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    I think we need to tell the LFS how much money they are actually loosing by employing uneducate staff members. They need to know the power of word of mouth advertising and that we spend a lot of money on our hobby.

    Tell them that reefers get together, know each other and are members of internet forums. If they provide educated professional service, we will tell other members and they will make mega bucks in return.
     
  11. Neil H

    Neil H Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    i think we need to take baby steps..... forget about making it legal .... for now .... lets get it established, lets elect a committee, set it up as non profit org etc, set up its goals and structure, a lot of it will be documentation.... lets get the documentation in line before we venture into making it law ..... lets pioneer best practice and put pressure on shops to adopt this practice, ideally a shop member should be on the committee as well in order that this is a transparent process.....
     
  12. maxisoft

    maxisoft

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    Great thread.... Tagging along on this one...
     
  13. Dane

    Dane

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    Love this idea!!! Fantastic Neil!!! :yeahdude: :yeahdude: :yeahdude:
     
  14. Neil H

    Neil H Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Dane i think you would be a highly valuable member of such a committee with your academic background !!
     
  15. Dane

    Dane

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    Hahaha! Thanks Neil, tho I think you're overestimating my worth! Although it would probably be good to have a conservation biologist in the team - I'd willingly partake in such an endeavour. I'm out of action till end of march (thesis hand in) but thereafter I'm all in!

    Looking forward to seeing this one evolve. I think its great. It would also provide an excellent channel for the dissemination of information to LFS. Some of them simply don't know. (Most sponsors excluded)
     
    Last edited: 14 Feb 2011
  16. Adee

    Adee

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    So Neil....would it be something along the lines of (purely an example!):

    Marine Keeping Accredited Staff (MKAS for short)
    These are staff that have been taken under the wing by actual reef keeping hobbyists and trained to know the in-outs of the reefkeeping hobby. Covering the basics of marine husbandry, etc, etc.

    So the LFS can advertise himself as "Joe's Pets" MKAS approved!

    MKAS, then would need to ensure that there are routine checks etc to ensure skills transfer, etc and no short cuts being done.
     
  17. richardmatlock

    richardmatlock

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    ...or just stop supporting Muppets with pet shops.... catch your own and don't kill them. I often go into our LFS's in PE and have a good laugh and cry at the same time. In 30 years of keeping marine fish, I NEVER bought anything living.
     
  18. Neil H

    Neil H Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    @ adee yes something like that

    @ richard, fair comment this is not for the experienced ppl this is to protect the newby, the LS, ultimately the hobby itself
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  19. Tremayn

    Tremayn

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    I have never been to a pet shop where they had a clue of whats going on! Its really shocking! Unless you are on a forum like masa I really dont see how people could successfully keep marines! Would like to once go to a place where you know you are getting decent advice. Have you ever been in this situation? (this really happened)
    Shop guy: thats a lovely clown trigger there, its eating like a beast and they make amazing reef fish!
    Me: Where is it? I only see that Undulate trigger in the tank :whistling:
    I wonder how many people have taken things like that home just to have it kill everything?
    Neil, maybe you should get in contact with the other forums and sponsors?
     
  20. MistaOrange

    MistaOrange

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    Another great thread Neil thanks this is really needed & to have workshops to educate the LFS & staff would really make a difference instead of hearing the bull shit info they pass on. I back this one 100%:thumbup:
     
  21. Neil H

    Neil H Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    I am glad to see the enthusiasm guys, any sponsors want to venture an opinion?

    Once we have an idea of what we would like to do then the idea would of couse be to get buy in from all parties
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
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