Help with filtration design please

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by Michael B, 11 Sep 2011.

  1. Michael B

    Michael B

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    Hey folks, please help – busy designing a new tank (yea it is that time, time for an upgrade) and the more research I do on filtration the more confused I get LOL.

    Tank size will be 1,500mm x 1,200mm x 600mm – mixed reef, but SPS dominated. Priorities are a stable system & LNS

    1. Live Rock Filtration
    Live Rock – minimal in display (i.e. just enough)
    Live Rock in Sump – to supplement minimal LR in display

    2. Phosphate Control
    Refugium (with reverse lighting) – lots of Chaeto only, with a phosphate reactor & dosing Prodibio
    OR
    NP Pellet reactor (i.e. none of the above as I understand it?)

    3. Ca, Mg & Alk Stability (supplemented with a Kalk Stirrer)
    Calcium Reactor
    Or
    Dosing pumps

    Also going to have
    Carbon Reactor

    Please let me know your thoughts on each point & help me make my decision LOL

    Thanks in advance

    Michael B
     
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  3. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    I believe in natural, simple, easy to care for systems. The KISS principal, Keep It Simple Stupid.

    So for me its big DSB systems and refugiums. With a nice size cheato ball.

    But at the end of the day, its your choice.
     
    rob189 and toppdogg like this.
  4. Reefhead

    Reefhead

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    I have used a DSB a Refuge and currently running the NP Pellets and so far for me the Pellets have so far been the simplest and easiest to care for. So I think KISS is relative
     
  5. Michael B

    Michael B Thread Starter

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    Appreciate that - thanks for the reply
     
  6. Theo

    Theo

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    NP-reactors have been proven to work by Lanzo and Tiger as they run a whole tank on only a skimmer and NP's, But on the other hand, we all like the fact that everything in our systems are alive and full of weird and wonderfull creatures. so I would say that you should look at the space youve got, but if you go DSB + refugium, make it as big as possible... But personally, i like the natural way... Up to you.
     
  7. Evo R

    Evo R

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    I would say look at space that you have availible to you.

    Personally my new setup will have only a skimmer, carbon and phos reactors and later when its fully stocked ill incorporate a Np reactor aswell.

    Reason is that i want the best possible filtration for my entire system that will fit neatly under my DT in the cabinet.

    BUT...... if i had an outside room next to where my DT was, and space was not a problem....then i would use the natural way.(extremly large dsb and refurigem and ats. ect.)

    If you really want a sucessfull "natural" filtration system, your dsb should be atleast the same or bigger area as your DT. Same goes for the refurigem ect.

    If you look at the most dense and differse reef in the world, and look anywhere in a 100cm x 100cm x 100cm area....it will still have less "life" in it, as when you compare it to what we(the most of us) are trying to keep in the same area. That is why our "natural" filtration should be soooo much more!

    This is just my personal opinion!!
     
    Last edited: 12 Sep 2011
  8. Michael B

    Michael B Thread Starter

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    Thanks Theo

    Evo R, what you described is exactly what I was thinking, just I am thinking of starting the NP Pellect reactor from day 1 (thanks for the input)
     
  9. rob189

    rob189

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    a big +1
     
  10. Achilles

    Achilles

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    I have still yet to see large systems run long term( 5 yrs plus) on np biopellets they are still in experimental phase, keep that in mind and they come with their own sets of pros and cons though.

    they may turn out to be the future best method but the jury is still out on them
     
  11. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    There is one thing I still do not understand about NP reactors. Well kind off, but then I got another thing I do not understand. Let me explain:

    The NP reactor is marketed as doing the complete nitrogen cycle. Also the Nitrate cycle that happens in a DSB in the deeper parts where there are no oxygen. It is said that its so effective that it can remove the available oxygen so fast inside the reactor, so that the nitrate action can happen. OK, I have to accept that it is true.

    But how can it be oxygen poor when you pump 1000 Liters per hour into the reactor that max keep about 10L water? If it does do it, then it is EXTREMELY effective.

    But lets say I'm made to believe that, now the next part I do not understand. What happens if the pump is off for 5 minutes, never mind 2 hours. If it is sooo effective, then it would consume the available oxygen within one minute, thereby leaving all the bacteria that depends on oxygen breathless. Meaning, they all die.

    A DSB, can be switched off for 2 hours. Yes sure some creatures do suffer, but the nitrite and nitrate migration down the sand still happens.

    Yes, I've seen the tank at Dorry Pets that runs on NP-reactor and skimmer only. But that tank is not overstocked as most of us tend to do anyway. And no big fish either. And yes, the tank is in a very nice condition.
     
  12. Achilles

    Achilles

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    The bacteria that reduce nitrate in the carbon pellets are not oxygen loving they are anaerobic bacteria they use the nitrate's oxygen but these bacteria exist deeper in the pellet under the biolayer that gets sloughed off, the other way nitrate and phosphate is reduced is that the other types of bacteria that use the carbon as food take up nitrate and phosphate as food , these though only remove nitrate and phosphate if their biomass is removed by actually skimming them out of the tank
     
  13. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    ok, what is the "safe" time that a reactor can be switched off before issues like die-off is a problem.

    And the time needed for reactor to be fully operational. It's definitely not a switch on and problems are gone solution.
     
  14. Reefhead

    Reefhead

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    Achilles answered this one for you

    I am not sure what the "safe" time was but mine was off for 8 hours once and they did clump up but I separated them again and switched on the reactor and everything was perfect with no ill effects that I could see.
    It is def not a switch on and the problems are gone solution, I fully agree with you, then again neither is a DSB or anything else in this hobby actually.
     
  15. TheWaterboy

    TheWaterboy Sponsor

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    get your ass down to imacsa or if thats to far away, contact me and ill give you mark vera's address.......
    he absolutly blew my mind on filtration and sump design last year, and was more that helpful in helping me design a dual flow sump , energy efficiant and catered for all my need of what i had planned......i mailed him and he basically sent me a pdf of his presentation along with options, sump designs etc etc......
    awesome guy and thats what these conferances are about......i though i knew it all, but i was blown away, by what i learnt and buy the fact that these guys hide nothing from the aquarists........no secrets, no nothing......you can basically ask em for a clam suppliers name....they ask a few questions and make an assumption if you legit and have the right reasons at heart and walla........no mmmm thats my secret source etc etc

    my needs were a medium nutriant system to sustain lps , softies ans a few spd with a medium t heavy fish load.
    my sump was designed with a dual chamber....dsb and fuge all in the same side by side flow that can adjusted at any given time, i have po4 rector, chaeto, tunze bio-filter , sump runs sweet and effictiantly and what i wanted is what i got
     
    Last edited: 12 Sep 2011
  16. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    This is basically the part I do not understand.
    A DSB must be 150mm deep, and its the bottom part that does the nitrate conversion. Now a NP-pellet is a few millimetres in diameter, and it can do the same thing in 2mm than sand can do in 100mm.

    Maybe I should not think or relate these two methods and just accept that it does the same.
     
  17. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb

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    :thumbup:
     
  18. Michael B

    Michael B Thread Starter

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    Thanks for all the questions & feedback - am learning mega as this goes on :)
     
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