good enough filtration?

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by Stavros, 25 May 2010.

  1. Stavros

    Stavros

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    OK i have a 15gallon reef tank

    I have 15 pounds of live rock + 4 cm of like sand

    MY filtration at the moment is 2 big sponges ( 15)cm then bio balls ( Not sure what goes onto of that ill cheack) then another sponge, water is then pumped back into the system...
    To me this is a useless filtration system for a reef tank!

    My new idea

    My filtration system is divided into 3 sections. The first section is where the sponges are.
    Ok i whant a filtration media box... It is divided into 4 -3 parts seperated by a layer of glass with holes in.

    OK in pannel one ill have in the first media chamber, filter floss then ill have stuff like carbon then ill have purigen in one compartment then bio balls in the next.

    Next tank chamber ill have quiet a bit of bioballs then one top of that ill have something like posban. Then i see that i have about 25 cm of space so i was thinking of doing a little refuge :thumbup: with an under water light! There illl grow algea to export nitrate.
    the reason why is that the next chamber is where the pump is and all the little pods will be transported into the aquarium without going through a filtration system

    I wont use a skimmer as i feel that all this filtration + water changes will be sufficient enough. SO a skimmer will be a wast of money.

    PLEASE comment on my future stoking plans!!

    5 dwarf hermits
    3 snails
    1 cleaner shrimp
    2 clown fish
    1 goby pistol shrimp pair

    CORALS

    mushrooms
    brain corals
    the hardy shit:razz:

    SO what do u THink????:1:
     
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  3. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Well that is a 60L Display tank

    first question, how much space do you actually have in your sump area (Length, Width and height). Doubt if you have enough space for a DSB.

    what is the size of your skimmer and return pump.

    Do you have any other equipment that must go into the sump?
     
  4. Dane

    Dane

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    Hey Stavros, I run my tank without a skimmer. Nor a sump for that matter. Its a 70L and I do a 25L water change once a week. That said, if I could I would add a sump without hesitation, but not necessarily a skimmer.

    Sponges, bioballs, ceramic rings etc are all generally recognised to trap detritus and gunk and leach nitrates into your water. Like Riaan said, it all depends on the space you have to work with. Filter floss and sponge are great if you clean them like every second day :p otherwise a deep sand bed (do some googling and read up on this one) -basically a layer of fine substrate aprox 15cm deep, then a refugium with some sort of macroalgae like caulerpa or chaetomorpha. lots of nice porous rock for filtration. Maybe even an algal turf scrubber if you can fit it in? Need to know what the size of your sump is tho...

    Stocking is nice and light, which is good. Personally, i've recently joined the ranks of the hermit crab haters. I think they are more trouble than they're worth, and I wouldnt put 5 in a 70L.... Maaaaybe one. but I'm not a fan of hermits.
     
  5. Stavros

    Stavros Thread Starter

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    Yes i have also read that bioballs produce high nitrate levels:( but that is only if debris gets through, at the moment i have 2 huge sponges right on top of each other:whistling:

    The dimensions of my mini Filtration system is roughly 10 length 8 wide and shit deep about 45-50 cm And my second space in the next compartment it is slightly bigger about 2 cm wider than the last but still the same dept.

    See it all starts off with the water flowing through 2 sponges that span about 45 cm ( both of them combined) that alown takes up the whole first compartment:( then water flows through bio balls then it goes through 2 bags of ( i think its carbon). It then goes through another sponge into the main tank...

    Must i keep the carbon in 24/7? ( if not what can i replace them with?), something that will help the well being of my tank

    What els can i put in the first camber other than 2 sponges. I was thinking of adding purigen ect with the one spunge on top in the first chamber then it will go through the bioballs, then the carbon bags, Now if i follow this route ill have about 20 cm of depth to work with( this is when i took out the useless sponge) so can i put a little refuge in there with an underwater light?

    give me ur thoughts :)))

    If boiballs come a problem ill rinse them in salt water every 3 weeks, thats not a problem for me

    I wont buy a skimmer as im saving up for a 130 gallon reef tank in the living room I think that one will cost something like 30 000:( But so totaly worth it!!!:peroni:
    CYA
     
  6. jacquesb

    jacquesb Retired Moderator

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    Stavros - how often do you do water changes, and what percentage? In such a small tank like yours (called a "nano tank"), water changes is IMPERATIVE! At least every week.....
     
  7. Stavros

    Stavros Thread Starter

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    OK i went to the LFS to day and he gave me something called Araglife,and he told me to put it ontop of my CC, he told me that in haveing a Deeper sand bed it will benifit my reef. Araglife is live sand in a packet with water in it ( EXPENSIVE) my Sand bed is about 8-13 cm deep in some places. Will this araglife help against nitrates ect ?

    Must i still get purigen for my filtration system?

    OH i do about a 15 PERCENT WATER CHANGE every week, using RO water

    TODAY i bought 1 watchman gody + 2 turbos+ 1 cleaner shrimp

    i put my turbos on my LR and they havent moved in the last 1 hour, they have attached themselfs to the rock and there little ( tenticals) at brushing against the rock.

    THANX

    Robert;)
     
  8. Dane

    Dane

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    Live sand in a packet is a lie. The "life" would never survive the shipping/transport etc. To get live sand you must either get it from the coast, or from a fellow reefers tank. There is truth that having a deep sand bed will help tho. Its probably better to place the DSB (must be 15cm deep to be effective) in your sump.

    Did you read my previous post? I already suggested a deep sand bed and suggested that you do some reading up on it.
     
  9. crispin

    crispin

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    i think that with that filtration and no skimmer it wont be sufficient to keep the water pristine and you will be walking a tight rope by relying solely on water changes (macro algae in the way you discribe it will have minimal effect i fear) to keep the nitrates in check. That will lead to you battling with corals most of this tanks life.

    Personally i really believe in the advances of skimmers and i strongly disagree that they are a waste of money, granted poor skimmers are a less effecient use of money over good skimmers, but even a poor skimmer in a tank like that would be better than none. I have a 30l nano and the first mod i did was take out the poor skimmer and replace it with an expensive but effective tunze 9002 skimmer. the advantages of a skimmer removing waste fast and efficiently before it has to be converted through the nitrogen cycle and have any chance of fouling the water is worth the expense in my personal view.

    while i can understand people saying that skimmers are expensive and can readily agree with that, i do not agree that they are a waste of money and that bioballs and some macro algae is a better alternative.

    personally i think that filtration system will lead you to battle with water quality all the tanks life.
     
  10. Dane

    Dane

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    I think small nanos can get by with large, regular water changes. Some of the most beautiful nanos i've seen have just a HOB filter and they keep changing filter floss regularly, or just use it as a fuge... the nanoreef site has plenty of good examples, but beware - they photoshop their pics to no end.

    When I say large, regular water changes tho... I mean HUGE, FREQUENT water changes. Stavros, 15% a week will not be enough without a skimmer IMO. I change 25L once a week in a tank that probably only has about 60/50L total volume.

    Those bioballs will cause you problems... You need to rinse any "detritus trap" far more frequently than every three weeks. Same goes for your sponges, filter floss etc etc. This form of manual removal needs to be cleaned every few days at LEAST.
     
  11. Dane

    Dane

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    +1 best way i've heard it put so far.
     
  12. Stavros

    Stavros Thread Starter

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    OK ILL GET A SKIMMER:1: If im gonna do this reef thing i have to spend some cash :)

    Ok seeing that i bought this new fine sand, the LSF told me to put it on top of my CC was this wise? ( must i get alot of sand sifters?)

    + i now have like 16 pounds of LR !!!
    one DSB in main display ( looks cool )

    Now where to place the skimmer??? hmm

    must i replace the two sponges in the first chamber with a skimmer?( will the skimmer catch all the debris that normally the sponges would.)
    WHat skimmer do u recommend that will fit in this size space ?? the dimensions are 13x9x38 (cm) Is there a skimmer made for this JBJ 12 gallon nano tank?

    And in the second chamber i have bioballs? + carbon bags ? then ill have a bag of purigen? ( ill have a little bit of space left, what els can i add)

    And maby in the third chamber where i previously planned to put nothing as that was where i have the main pump, ill fence off the pump with fine mesh? then ill turn the 30cm colom into a mine refugium with calpura ect with an underwater light

    What do u think ? what must i have in my chambers?, must i get rid of the BIOBALLS? as i already have good bio filtration in the main tank. If i replace them, what do i replace them with?

    And also plz comment on the carbon being in there 24/7

    Cheers

    Robert.
     
  13. Stavros

    Stavros Thread Starter

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    For the skimmer i was thinking of getting the oceanic biocube skimmer as it is the only one that actualy fits into my filtration system :)

    BUT... do i place the skimmer before my biological filtration of after? ( is it ok for it to be placed before the bioballs aswell as the mini refuigm )
     
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