Frenatus spawn

Discussion in 'Breeding fish' started by pHishman, 6 Sep 2016.

  1. pHishman

    pHishman

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    Hi all

    I have a pair of Frenatus clowns that have a bunch of wrigglers at the moment. Unfortunately I have no culture of rotifers available, will only be able to get in about 3 weeks time.

    Is there anything else I can use to feed the larvae when they go free-swimming?

    Any other tricks to successfully raising a batch of these clowns will be greatly appreciated.

    Kind regards

    Andrew
     
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  3. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Unless you got a food supply chain going already, then just leave them to become fish food. The clowns will lay eggs again in a few weeks time. Rather use the time in between to research and setup a food supply system.
     
  4. pHishman

    pHishman Thread Starter

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    Hi Riaan, thanks for the reply. I seriously need help with someone who can talk me thru this. As I type, I have a culture of marine rotifers on its way through to Somerset West, and I can organise a culture of nannochloropsis. I am setting up a 20litre tank with water taken from my main rig and will pop in an airstone to aerate the water. ( I breed angels and discus on a large scale so have tons of spare tanks etc ).

    So where the pair are at the moment is there is still the bundle of what I would refer to as wrigglers that are still attached to the spawning site ( unfortunately an overflow pipe that cannot be removed ). At what stage could I remove the wrigglers and place them in my 'hatching' tank in the fishroom? or do I just wait and see when they go free swimming and then try syphon them out? It has been suggested to me to place a terracotta shard near the current spawning site for the next spawn to try and get the parents to lay on a surface that can easily be removed.

    Andrew
     
  5. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Or use a Terracota clay flower pot. Have two, as you remove the one, put the next in its place exactly.

    Get your feeding system fully up and running first.
     
  6. pHishman

    pHishman Thread Starter

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    So I have learnt a shizz load in the last 2 days and hopefully will be on track to learn more as the clowns and I progress.

    As we now stand, the eggs are still wriggling away on the spawning site and the parents are guarding and fanning them well. The eggs are also a lot darker than when I first spotted them and now must wait till they appear silverish. Then will see if they hatch and will be able to keep records of time between hatching and spawning and then in turn between spawning and hatching.

    Thanks to my friend, I collected a culture of marine rotifers last night as well as a uni-cellular algae culture. So now we wait and see how this all developes.

    Keeping thumbs crossed.
     
    Last edited: 9 Sep 2016
  7. pHishman

    pHishman Thread Starter

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    Eggs are turning silver and what appears to be the eyes are now clearly visible. Anticipating the hatch tonight. Will see what happens.

    In the meantime, rotifer and nanno cultures are bubbling away.
     
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  8. viper357

    viper357 Admin MASA Contributor

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    Did they hatch? What method are you going to use to catch them?
     
  9. pHishman

    pHishman Thread Starter

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    No hatch yet, perhaps tomorrow night. Eggs are now super silver and looks as though the yolk sac is almost gone. Eyes all clearly visible so holding thumbs for tomorrow.

    For this first batch I'm going to use the torch and soup ladle method to catch the larvae. Fortunately the pair are in my refugium so I can switch off the water inlet without disrupting my main tank for the hour or so it should take to hatch. Them I will slip a slightly larger pipe over the overflow and should they spawn on this next time round I can simply remove the pipe to the larvae tank on hatch night.

    As this is my first time I'm not expecting a success, but getting my ducks in a row for future spawns.

    Andrew
     
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  10. viper357

    viper357 Admin MASA Contributor

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    Sounds like you've been doing some good research, good luck. The first few batches should be treated as test runs, get your methods fine tuned and hopefully your success rate will get better. If I remember correctly my clowns spawned every 10 or 12 days, I've got it all written down somewhere, but it's been a few years, lol. Getting past day 3 was the biggest hurdle. Don't get disheartened if you lose the whole batch, just keep going.

    What is the size of your larvae tank?

    Keep us posted. :thumbup:

    p.s. Parent nutrition is vital to having healthy babies, make sure your parents are eating well and a good variety of foods.

    p.p.s. post pics :D
     
  11. pHishman

    pHishman Thread Starter

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    Hi Dean, thanks for the tip on parent nutrition. Im feeding them small amounts of flake, formula one and frozen Mysis and brineshrimp.

    Here are photos of the eggs taken on Monday night and then one of my rotifer culture in a sample shot glass. Hope the density is sufficient. They have multiplied plenty since receiving them last week which is a good sign. I have split the culture 4 ways to spread the risk of losing them.

    IMG_1571.JPG

    The eggs are almost completely silver this morning which I take it is a sign the yolk sacs are now almost exhausted and this may mean we looking at the hatch happening tonight after lights out. Lets wait and see.


    IMG_1578.JPG

    Hope the density of rotifers is sufficient. I have another 24-36 hours before I will need to feed so hoping they multiply even more in that time.
     
  12. viper357

    viper357 Admin MASA Contributor

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    Rotifers look good, but remember they will spread out quite substantially when you put them in the larvae tank, so load it up as much as you can. You want the larvae to be able to basically bump into the rotifers without them having to swim/hunt for them, otherwise they expend all of their energy swimming for the rotifers instead of using that energy to grow. Best of luck for tonight. :thumbup:
     
  13. pHishman

    pHishman Thread Starter

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    Just finished catching the larvae. Do I feed tonight, or first thing in the morning.

    Please advise.
     
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  14. pHishman

    pHishman Thread Starter

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    I decided to add rotifers to the tank last night. However this morning, 53 larvae did not make the night. There are around 30 or so that are swimming well, and im hoping they are finding the rotifers.

    I think to make things easier for next time I am definitely going to place a removable spawning site to the breeding tank to simplify matters.

    The ones that didn't make it
    IMG_1589.JPG
     
    Last edited: 15 Sep 2016
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  15. viper357

    viper357 Admin MASA Contributor

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    A good idea, it also helps to prevent injuries to the baby fish as they are extremely delicate.
    Keep pumping rotifers into the larvae tank. You can add a bit of greenwater as well to keep the rotifers fed and multiplying in the larvae tank, but not too much. How big is the larvae tank? Have you got it blacked out?
     
  16. viper357

    viper357 Admin MASA Contributor

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    p.s. well done so far :thumbup:
     
  17. pHishman

    pHishman Thread Starter

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    They are in a 46cm x 22cm x 28cm tank, with around 12litres of water so just over half.

    Tank is blacked out on all sides with a towel and black gauze over the top to diffuse the light a bit.

    There are still larvae cruising this afternoon which im happy about.
     
  18. pHishman

    pHishman Thread Starter

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    Update:

    By last night I had syphoned off another 17 larvae that didn't make it and this morning another 27 that didn't survive night 2. Unfortunately there is now only 1 survivor this morning.

    Holding thumbs the parents spawn again so I can give this another attempt, but must say its been a learning curve.

    Next time I will be geared to move the eggs to the larvae tank on hatch night rather than having to move the sensitive larvae.
     
  19. viper357

    viper357 Admin MASA Contributor

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  20. pHishman

    pHishman Thread Starter

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    Ok, so when I locked up my facility last night it looked as though the last larva had died. I have just come down to feed and check on things and thought while im here I may as well strip and clean the larvae tank. As im about to syphon the water out, lo and behold I see a larvae come swimming out from underneath the heater ( which id already switched off ).

    So we have 1 chap who has made it through 3 nights. Couldn't believe it!!! Will see if he is still alive tomorrow.....he certainly has enough rotifers to feed on, LOL
     
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  21. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    How is it this morning?
     
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