Flukes and Whitespot simultaneously!

Discussion in 'Quarantine Tanks, sick fish, QT corals' started by SumthingFishy, 10 Jun 2011.

  1. SumthingFishy

    SumthingFishy

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    Hi reefers

    I need some advise please. What is the best way to treat for these 2 at the same time?

    My fish have flukes and whitespot simultaneously. Been treating them in QT for the last 3 weeks. Treatment is hypo salinity for the whitespot and freshwater dips with Paraguard for flukes. I would like to go the Cupramine route, but I do not have a copper test kit yet. Hopefully I can get one over the weekend.
    Also im not sure if the fish would be strong enough to go over to the copper treatment, once the SG (1.025) in QT is stable for copper.
    I am aware for hypo to work correctly, the duration could be from 4 - 8 weeks maybe even more.
    I also have Parasite CLear which contains praziquantal for flukes.
    But I do not want to use too many meds, especially in hypo salinity.

    Currently all fish have gone through 3 treatments of Paraguard 10 - 12 minute dips.
    SG is at 1.009. Temp is 26 C. Two days ago I saw WS on the Foxface, so now the clock has been reset for the WS treatment. Planning to run my DT for 8 - 10 fallow.
    So far 5 fish died over a slow period.

    All fish are eating and swimming around and their colors look normal. Except for the Royal Gramma an Foxface tailfins looking frailed and very dull.
    Struggling to keep the ammonia low...but it is manageable.
    Ph 7.6, need some buffer.
    QT setup is a 45 liter tank with heater, small powerfilter with sponges and bioballs, and plastic pots and pipes. Running bare bottom.

    Fish list in QT:
    1x Magnificent Foxface (medium)
    1x Regal Tang (small medium)
    1x Yellow Tang (small medium)
    2x True Percula Clowns (small)
    1x Royal Gramma (small medium)
    3x Blue/ Green Chromis (small)
    2x Yellowtail Damsels
    1x Bicolor Blenny (small)

    Which treatment route should I go? Stick to what im doing? Copper might work, but I am not sure. I have read and researched alot on diseases but it is so easy get things wrong. This is my first time treating for flukes and whitespot simultaneously.

    Thank you!
    Arno
     
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  3. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb

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    @magman help a fellow out will ya?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  4. Two Oceans Aquatic S&S

    Two Oceans Aquatic S&S

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    Arno

    First Paraguard is only effective if you dip for more than 1 hr, SO you should dip them in water from the tank for 90min, ( paraguard is good stuff ) will help for the WS. The the best for flukes is ether Fresh water dips or prazi which you said you had in the parasite clear hey its good stuff but just be carefull on the concentration becuase it can cuase some nasty scares if to strong. I would run the tank buddies tablets in the QT tank all the time and then dip in the evenings with paraguard, why I say the evenings is becuase the mech green is removed by UV so best done in the evenings

    Trev

    Trev
     
  5. Tremayn

    Tremayn

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    ah I also have white spot!
     
  6. magman

    magman

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    I may have a few bottles of prazipro lying around, it is reefsafe, and the best and only thing if you have flukes, you only really need to dose it once, but I would rather dose again on day 3or 6 and then a third dose on day 10, prazipro is fine to dose with copper, the copper you don't have to run at the full dose, I have found the safest is use cupramine and run it at 0.250 (half dose), I have even used it with dwarf angels. The levels need to be above 0,2 though, velvet etc at 0.3, for flukes the levels need to be higher. I would run a low level of copper for the w/s and dose prazi at the same time.

    The parasite clear tablets work fine, it's fun watching them fizz, but then I would only use them by themself. I would not use hypo, especially with dosing medications.

    How sure are you that you have flukes?
     
  7. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb

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    @magman at what level did u use the cuparamine for the Dwarf angels and did it clear the WS?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  8. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb

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    @magman at what level did u use the cuparamine for the Dwarf angels and did it clear the WS?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  9. magman

    magman

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    i never had ws with it, it was only when the fish was new for qt, i think seachem say cupramine is safe for copper sensitive fish up to 0.7, 0.5 kills most parasites, but the worst ws is only 0.2.
     
  10. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb

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    Ok lemme see if i got this right @magman
    Its safe up to 0.7 for dwarf angels?
    0.5 kills most parasites
    But the worst ws is only 0.2 - This i dont understand, can you please explain:blush:
     
    Last edited: 11 Jun 2011
  11. magman

    magman

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    Seachem say it is safe upto 0.7 for copper sensitive fish,
    Someparasites like velvet are much deeper in the skin and need much higher levels, I think velvet/oodium was 0.4, flukes etc were a min of 0.5,
    For ws I read they say 0.1 is fine, and for bad cases of serious ws (the smaller one I think, 0.2), so I run it at 0.25, never had a problem with fish at this level.

    For anything worse, like the deeper parasites/diseases, then I would rather bath in formalin.
     
  12. Yuri

    Yuri

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    Remember flukes is a parasite and needs more copper

    Where have you fount the prazipro I contacted the importer of hikari and he is not bringing them in any more
     
  13. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb

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    @magman Thank you
    last1 can you tell me where you got the Prazipro from? as i would like some as well
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  14. magman

    magman

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    I got the last lot from the importer, appreantly he has to import like 20-40k or something like that, it was not viable for him.

    The prazi can sometimes give the larger angels seizures, it has happened to me once and I know of a few others who had the same problem.

    Otherwise you can use the parasite clear from jungle, the fizzing tabs, I have used that too before.

    You can also use that malaria stuff, can't remember which one,
    i think choloquine, I know Ushaka use that and put it in a gel form for food.
     
  15. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb

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    cool cool thanks man
     
  16. Tremayn

    Tremayn

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  17. flappy

    flappy

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    Guys copper kills only the free swimming stage of any parasite and thus its irrelevant how deep the parasite has burrowed into the skin of the fish.
    The trick with copper is to have your levels in the killing zone during the free swimming stage.
    One can treat with Prazi and Cupramine at the same time.
    I would use the transfer method if the WS is not at lethal stages together with Prazi dips.
     
  18. magman

    magman

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    I disagree with you there, I have seen fish every time covered in powder being given almost immdiate relief within a few hours from copper and the other harsher meds, even bathing fish with formalin for velvet etc, it almost immediatly clears them. Even wet web reckon bathing for relief
     
  19. flappy

    flappy

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    Magman I assume when you saying powder on the fish you are referring to Oodinium or white spot.I think based on what I have read on this thread there are a few misconceptions on white spot and Oodinium and how to treat for it.

    White Spot and Oodinium
    Copper specifically targets the infectious, free-swimming theront stage of this disease, as being buried deep in the skin of the host protects the trophonts; the cyst walls of the tomonts are similarly impervious.

    Bottom line is copper will not touch white spot once attached to its host this is scientific fact.

    Freshwater dips and formalin dips can dislodge Oodinium but not effective if the fish is returned to the same environment due to reinfection.
     
    Last edited: 12 Jun 2011
  20. magman

    magman

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    I have just read through the archives on wet web media, look under the oodium threads, and you will see there that baths of formalin or copper treats the infection on the fish just by bathing, followed by consective baths daily or fw dips.

    Also remember with the ws/crypt, it is not the spots on the body of the fish that kills the fish, it is the infection in the gills where the little nerds are not so deep that the immediate relief comes from. On wet web they clearly state that copper is ineffective to velvet as it is to ws, due to the depth of the parasite, and they recomend formalin to get deeper to the fish.

    I am not really in the mood for a debate or argument, but I am also saying that every time I have a new fish or when fish needed qt, it is almost immediate in a few hours that they lose the spot.
     
  21. SumthingFishy

    SumthingFishy Thread Starter

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    Hi Trev

    Thank you for the reply.
    I will try doing the dips in the evenings, did not know the melachite green will get destroyed by UV rays. I did a 1h 30 mins bath last week but then 3 fish died, followed the instructions on the bottle.
    Only the strong fish will now survive.
     
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