Fish wedging?

Discussion in 'Urgent Help Needed' started by Titanse, 20 Dec 2009.

  1. Titanse

    Titanse

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    Hi Ppl

    I have had a tank running for 2 months now and cycled for a month with the help of Nutrafin cycle.

    I put in my 2 tomato clowns after the 1st month when all my water parameters where good.

    They are as happy as can be. I also have a pulsating Zenia thats also thriving.

    I tried to add a fire goby about a week and a half ago. He was alright, feeding, swimming etc when I woke up about a week later and found him wedged between two rocks..

    Dead.

    I then left the tank for another week and got myself a cleaner and Lamarck angel. I did the proper dripping and everything, this took about 1 - 2 hours.

    I seems that the cleaner must have died about 6 hours after I put him in. ????

    The angel was happy. He was even at feeding this morning. when I got back in the after noon (bout 15 hours after intro) found him wedged between 2 rocks...

    Like I say, my clowns and zenia are fine!!!! Please help as I can't keep adding fish and they keep wedging themselves.. the parameters seem to be fine!
     
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  3. lIghty

    lIghty

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    Sure there is not something in the tank that could be grabbing them and pulling them into to rocks, Like a crab? Try look at night with a red light.
     
  4. Titanse

    Titanse Thread Starter

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    Don't have any crabs at all... the clowns are fine tho..?
     
  5. Pads

    Pads

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    Sorry to hear mate. What are the parameters of your water. Its a good chance that your hardier fish like clown are surviving potentially high nitrates but the new additions may be stressed and cannot handle the further stress of toxic nitrates.
     
  6. Titanse

    Titanse Thread Starter

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    MMmmm will double check the params again. But I'm sure that they are ok...
     
  7. henry888

    henry888

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    The last time i checked his parameters it was fine. The live rock came from me, and there were no predators... Maybe it is the way the rocks are packed?
     
  8. Anemone

    Anemone

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    Did the rocks shift? Is there anything digging in the sand that might make the rocks shift? Tomato clowns will sometimes move sand around. Double check to make sure your rocks are secured and keep an eye on your livestock to see if anyone is digging.
     
  9. Zuna

    Zuna

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    dont you have to drip inverts a longer.
    i learnt that the hard way, i bout one and only dripped it for about 30 mins after that i put it in my DT and when i reached the substrate it was dead.

    ps dude are you sure the Tomatoes didnt kill the angel. ive add a few chromis to my DT on and yesturady the ones tail was bit almost off
     
  10. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    If you say wedged, you mean you struggle to get the remains out between the rocks. Are they partially eaten?

    Fish will not go and swim into a crevice until they are stuck and die. Even Blennies that hide inside the rock can and will always come out.
    I think you do have something else catching, pulling them in and eating them.

    Unless they died and the water current just left them there. Check your water parameters. If nothing eaten them, then your water is not ok for new stressed inmates.
     
  11. Titanse

    Titanse Thread Starter

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    Zuna : the clowns actually left him well alone... didn't even blink twice - chromis look similar to clowns and are apart of the damsel family, only reason they clowns fight....Also the cleaner is a cleaner wrasse fish mate, sorry for not specifying :)

    Anemone : As far as I know my clowns don't dig... the rocks are secure as they are pushed into the sand. so no shifting...

    RiaanP : yes wedged. no remains just as is... nothing eating them at all! My params are fine so what else would make the stressed inmates do this??? Lighting, temp???

    Would like to know before I get another angel or cleaner!!!!
     
  12. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Ok, only thing I can think of is that the new fish was kept at 1.020 or below salanity at the LFS. You must make sure that you drip a lot longer to get it equal to your tank level.

    For me to get 1.020 up to 1.025 I have to double the water volume in the container the fish is in. Then I drain it 50%. Then fill it up untill it is double volume again. Then it is at the same level.

    I got a nice big glass jar, as used for making sweet fruit pieces in syrup by the older generations. (Canfruit bottle? I think you called it). I put my new fish with water from LFS in that standing in my sump. Ensure it cannot fall over. And I drip into that bottle for up to 2 hours. I drain it halfway before it overflows, do not want the LFS water into my system. Can put a small eggcrate over it to prevent them from jumping.
     
  13. Titanse

    Titanse Thread Starter

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    Thanks Riaan...

    Will look at that for future...

    Just not sure what to do... well I'll let you know how it goes...
     
  14. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac MASA Contributor

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    If you really want meaningful help, you MUST post the actual values - "fine" is very vague, and does not tell us anything... So, specifically, please report the following parameters of your tank:

    ammonia
    nitrite
    nitrate
    SG/salinity
    pH

    Next time you buy a fish, check all these parameters again, AND check the same parameters of the water in the bag, before you start to acclimatise the fish.

    Oh, and it's NOT a good idea to buy a cleaner wrasse - they need specialized food, and don't normally survive long-term in small aquaria.

    Hennie
     
  15. martinhal

    martinhal

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    I have fish darting in and out of rocks all the time. Fish do not get stuck in rocks . Someting is catching them or they are dying from toxins or acclimatising issues. Post your actual readings . Keep us updated and we can help you out.
     
  16. sunburst

    sunburst

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    By the time fish arrive at the local fish supplier (LFS) they have been starved for weeks in order to minimize the amount of ammonia from excretion during transit. Immune systems have collapsed and fish are almost always ragged from stress and exhaustion. Mortality rates are naturally high. Purchases should only be made after you have seen the fish feed. The overall appearance of the fish should be good. General alertness should be good. Certain fish stress more than others ie more docile ...Tomatoe clowns are notoriously aggressive. IMO the most aggressive of the clown family. The fire goby is a twitchy shy guy. All newly purchased fish should be treated as national assets. Considering what we pay for them... There are products on the market which beef up immunity and high kJ boosters which can kickstart a flagging metabolism. __________________
     
  17. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac MASA Contributor

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    Actually, many reef fish do "wedge" themselves at night when they sleep - it's a natural thing to do to keep from drifting out into the open, where predators can catch them. Although I don't have any proof of this, I suspect that seriously stressed or dying fish can do the same in certain situations.

    As I said earlier, though, Titanse needs to supply a lot more detailed information before we can even guess at the possible cause - it could be anything from toxins in the air (heavy smoking or insect spray), to the new fish being caught with poisons, to pH or salinity shock caused by the tank water being markedly different to that of the LFS, but without precise data we will never know... (The "old" fish would not be killed by any of the above, as it has been acclimated over a long period, and is not stressed out by being kept starving, as sunburst described...)

    Hennie
     
  18. Titanse

    Titanse Thread Starter

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    Hennie my Params are as follows...

    Nitrite - 0.01
    Nitrate - 0.01
    Amonia - 0.1
    Salinity 1.1101 (roughly using a floating Hydrometer)
    PH - 8.4

    This is what I checked last time...

    When I got him he had been at the lfs for 3 weeks, healthy and eating. He got into my tank and started to eat the rocks and swim about freely. The clowns didn;t even blink twice when they saw him... actually completely ignored him.

    In the morning I feed him with the others and he ate fine... later that afternoon I found him wedged!
     
  19. Titanse

    Titanse Thread Starter

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    Just outta interest, my mate has a cleaner and he is eating flakes, nori and is surving well!....
     
  20. viper357

    viper357 Admin MASA Contributor

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    There's something very wrong with that reading, it's supposed to be in the region of 1.024, as it stands now the salt content of your water is over 4 times higher than what it should be.

    Not too sure about your other readings, they all seem to be full of 1's and 0's :p Nitrite MUST be 0, Ammonia MUST be 0, Nitrate can go up to 15 or 20 and still be acceptable.
     
  21. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac MASA Contributor

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    Yup, something seriously wrong with that SG, if it's not a typo. The reading of 0.1 (ppm, I assume...) for the ammonia is also indicative of a problem - as Viper said, it should ALWAYS be undetectable with a normal hobby-type test kit.

    If the SG is really so high, I would suspect that the newly introduced fish died from osmotic shock, literally losing their own body fluids. On the other hand, if the SG is a typo, and the actual value is 1.011 (much too low...), then the osmotic shock should not have been bad enough to kill them without something else being wrong as well, as most fish are more adaptable to a sudden decrease of salinity than to a sudden increase. By the way, the correct salinity should be in a range of 1.024 - 1.026 at a temperature of 25°C - 27°C

    Titanse, please confirm that reading for us.

    Perhaps, but for how long... It always upsets me when people consider it "successful" if they've kept a fish or coral alive for 6 months, or even one year. If this friend of yours has kept this fish alive for 8-10 years or more, then he can claim success. Human children still die from malnutrition (mostly in darkest Africa...), but they can live for quite a few years before finally dying. a lack of vitamin C used to kill many sailors during the 1700's and 1800's, after they lived "successful" lives before embarking on their journeys. Cleaner wrasse are obligate parasite eaters in the wild, and eating only fish flakes and nori (which is a vegetable, and NOT suitable for a meat-eating carnivore...) WILL result in nutrient deficiencies, and will result in premature death for these fish.

    Hennie
     
    Last edited: 24 Dec 2009
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