Filtration - LR/Sponge/Balls/DSB

Discussion in 'Beginner Discussions' started by gavster, 7 Jun 2011.

  1. gavster

    gavster

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    Right all you guru's! Tonights questions are regarding filtration.

    I've read all the posts and i'm skipping the bio-balls.

    Im going with a DSB with a few pieces of LR rock over it but am also going to use some Chaeto (when i find some) with a night light alternating with my DT.

    • Just so ive got this straight, what is the correct order of things? I cant fit the LR AND Chaeto above the DSB since the Chaeto will just stick to the LR or is this ok?
    • Can i put the LR in the next or previous chamber? Can i put the Chaeto in another chamber? How do you guys make it work? Im still designing the sump so need to figure this out.
    • Next question is do i use sponge or any other "filter"anywhere in the system? What do i put in my overflow?
    • Lastly this is my first marine tank so an algae scrubber just seems a little overkill and overcomplicated to me at this stage, with everything else im trying to absorb and understand to keep all my little critters happy and healthy. To me it SEEMS to perform virtually the same function as a trickle over bio-balls??? Please tell me what i need to hear - that i'll be ok without one.:p
    Bear with my a little longer chaps. My baby is destined to be a TOTM!;)
     
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  3. mupwi

    mupwi

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    Yo there gav the scrubber dosent have to be complicated look at my thread and see my one took like 15 min to put together
     
  4. ADVdiver

    ADVdiver

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    HI Gavster, this will cause some Debate...
    Do you plan to have a protein skimmer....
    My preference is this
    1) Protein skimmer ( removal of organic waste before its broken down by aerobic bacteria)
    2) Mechanical filtration eg sponges, filter mat ( removal of large matter before clogging up bio media
    3) Bio logical media ie bio balls, ceramic noodles,etc (breakdown of organic waste to ammonia, nitrite, nitrate)

    OPTIONAL
    Refugium ( no DSB) grow various plants ie Cheato (natural removal of Nitrate and Phosphate etc)

    DSB i prefer RDSB greater depth of sand, higher flow of clean water over it less likely to become a nutrient sink. (break down of nitrate)

    De-nitrater, NP Pellets or Carbon source dosing are also a viable options and IMO work smarter and quicker than a DSB or even RDSB

    Which route you choose to go is up to you. Yes a DSB can work and more often than not the DSB together with live rock and algae creates a nutrient sink, which can be a greater problem than leaving this out of the system that's why if I do use one its going to be remote and fed with clean water only.

    My 2c....
     
  5. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    you going to have different themed questions every day :eek: !!!!!
    Only kidding..best way to set up a marine tank is slowly and to make sure everything is well planned.

    What do you plan to keep? This will determine what filtration you need.

    Brief answers to your questions:
    - you can put cheato and liverock above the DSB. BUT the liverock must be sspended above the sand to allow waer movement over the DSB and prevent dead spots. Cheato will not attach to anything, it sort of tumbles around in a dense ball.
    - you can put LR in a separate chamber, just make sure it gets good circulation to stop detritus build up. Cheato can also get its own chamber. Alot of guys have macro algae in separate refugiums. It all depends on space and budget.
    - filter floss/mat is good for trapping detritus. You can put it in the overflow to catch detritus before it has a chance to breakdown into nitrate/phosphate. MAke sure its cleaned or replced very frequently.
    - scrubber performs trhe same function as macro algae (ie.remove nitrates adn phosphates).They more efficient than chaeto. Trickle filters rely on aerobic bacteria to break down nitrogenous compounds into nitrate. As Mupwi pointed out, scrubbers arent all that complicated. You can be ok without one.
     
  6. gavster

    gavster Thread Starter

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    :lol: I was waiting for that Dave! Im going to test you after...:p

    No i think im done after this. The tank is being built. The cabinet design is finalised. So now its just these last few niggles to get my head straight. Thanks so much for your valuable input again.

    ADVdiver you certainly threw the cat amongst the pigeons here! I am using a BIG skimmer yes (still to buy) but not too keen on the balls and pellets or rings. Ive read too many bad things.

    Ok, ill investigate the scrubber, but maybe settle in first.
     
  7. crispin

    crispin

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    well im no guru, but ive had a stab at answering some of your questions above :) hope it helps a little
     
  8. gavster

    gavster Thread Starter

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    Sorry guys, thoughts on this? This is new to me and YET ANOTHER thing to scare theshit out of me! Is there no "fix all" option!? Damn im nervous!

    Also a RDSB is new to me? I'll search for it now to see what it is and how it works. I'm sorry i started this threa now:eek:
     
  9. gavster

    gavster Thread Starter

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    Thanks to you too Crispin. Great feedback from all of you! Very helpful...
     
  10. crispin

    crispin

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    dont be scared by that, i think adv could expand his explanation to you slightly but essencially what he is saying is that if a DSB isnt correctly set up they can cause difficulties.

    a RDSB stands for remote deep sand bed, and is prefered over a sump DSB simply because we can then INCREASE the size substancially and create a foot print that is greatly to the tanbks advantage. Having that fed by 'clean' water as ADV is suggesting is also great. By clean he is refering to water that has already been filtered mechanically and chemically and then feeds to RDSB, to recirculate back to the sump and then back to the DT. RDSB are def preferable to in sump DSB, but they can be difficult to set up if you are space constricted.

    dont be sorry to start a thread fella, its by far the best way to learn and we will do all we can to help you along :) ask away
     
  11. ADVdiver

    ADVdiver

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    Then my advice is this

    From display feed water to skimmer from skimmer through a filter sock or sponge
    then over into a chamber with your live rock (if you can create a trap for detritus to make it easier to remove) then under and over across your DSB and onto your return chamber.

    There is a good chance your skimmer wont handle all the water from the display feed the bypass into a refuge with all you critters and algae and from there to your return pump. Just An idea from Mark Vera (big fan of refuge, critters and macro algae etc).

    throwing ideas around...:whistling:
     
  12. nico.m.ferreira

    nico.m.ferreira

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    Personally I am a big fan of milk filter socks.
    I know there is a lot of people that don't like it because of the work involved but for me its worth it. but you will not believe the amount of detrus it removes.
    I even noticed that the skimmer skimmed less.
    just wanted to get an opinion, is it better to put the NP reactor in the first or last compartment?
     
  13. gavster

    gavster Thread Starter

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    Ok this is simple ADVdiver. I like simple;) Thanks a lot. Still worried about the"high maintanance of the sponge though if i use it, but as far as i can see theres no other way of trapping the "big bits" :023:
     
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