Expert advice needed

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by sniper, 8 Mar 2013.

  1. sniper

    sniper

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    So after 2 years in the hobby I thought I understood marine and decided to upgrade to from a TL500 (130 litres) to a 1000 litre tank beginning of January. I cycled the tank and introduced my fish from the old tank (3 clowns,3 green chomis,, cleaner wrasse and 1 Yellow tang plus a frogspawn, zoas and mushroom corals) into the big tank. The fish survived for 2 weeks so I decided to add a Naso tang, once again nothing happened until I got a regal tang.. This is where my nightmare began, so my rule method for quarantine is when I buy a fish at a LFS I live it there for 2 weeks and if it doesnt die there then it qualifies to be in my tank (*This has worked for me for me in the past*). I followed the same quarantine method for the Regal tang, but this time it after 2 days it woke up with Ich ( or something similar) all over. I then went to another LFS and they recommended Paraguard which killed my frogspawn and some hermits :pissedoff: So I then stopped the treatment and bought Herbtana. In the days to come I noticed the skin of the other fish deteriorating and in the course of the 10 day herbtana treatment I lost the regal tang, 2 of my clowns and the cleaner wrasse.


    Currently (after the herbtana treatment) the yellow tang and green chromis are healthy, Naso tang eats well but the skin is not as great at times he wakes with signs of ich and the other days he's fine.

    I know im not the first person to experience this disaster which is why I need to know how you guys would deal with such a scenario form the condition my tank is in, to a state where it becomes disease free and I can add new livestock.

    *FYI -For my equipment I have a Protein skimmer, Ozonator and a UV steriliser, I do my water changes of 150 litres every 2 weeks, and my water parameters I in the normal ranges*
     
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  3. leslie hempel

    leslie hempel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    hi @sniper

    A few questions and observations

    Did you use stability for the initial weeks after the change over

    I personally would have allowed about 1 - 2 months before adding any extra fish

    What are your parameters (actual values) amm, nitrite and nitrate specifically?)

    I dont recomend using an LFS as a quarantine facility (even though i sometimes do aswell - call me a hypocryte :p) as they may have shipments which come in half way through the 2 week period (which i would recomend as a minimum quarantine period). introducing pathogens) .

    I can offer more info when you come back with some water tests..

    and a pic would greatly help to sum up the situation to an extent aswell..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  4. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    no no no no

    This gives a fish another 2 weeks to be infected.

    Do you still have the old tank? If yes, then use that as quarantine.
     
  5. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    hi
    where abouts in Jhb are you, i might be able to help you out
     
  6. sniper

    sniper Thread Starter

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    Thanks for the response @leslie hempel, no I did not use stability. I will measure all the parameters and post them tonight as well as the photos.
    @RiaanP Yes I still have it, I will start using it as my quarantine tank going forward
    @dallasg I stay in Randpark Ridge, I would really appreciacte it if you come and have a look, I will PM you my address
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  7. leslie hempel

    leslie hempel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    cool dude.. the more info the better...
     
  8. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    got your PM, this weekend is a little hectic, will see what i can do
     
  9. sniper

    sniper Thread Starter

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    Hi guys, when I got back from work my Naso tang had died, the other fish are looking healthy though hopefully that it is the last fish to die.
    @leslie hempel my parameters are as follows, pH is 8.4, ammonia 0, nitrites 0 , nitrates 0. so I dont know what can be the problem.
    @RiaanP, Im considering putting all my fish in the boyu tl550 and running copper in there. currently there is crushed coral in the boyu tank, am I suppose to remove it all or what is the best way to setup the quarantine tank? Secondly do I need to quarantine them or maybe I should just let them be? The following fish is whats left, 4 green chromis, 1 Yellow tang, 1 Clown, 1 Cleaner wrasse and a sand sifting goby
    @dallasg, no problem, you can just let me know whenever you are free. thanks
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  10. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    Something the experts might ask is ...;)

    What is your redox level in your tank?

    How did you measure your pH.. With what test kit?

    It could be that the fish are suffering from pH burn and/or excessive redox.

    How do you monitor and control your ozone?
     
    Last edited: 8 Mar 2013
  11. pkc

    pkc

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    Mate, firstly the surgeon fish in question is a white spot magnet, with that I mean it has extremely small scales like most surgeons, tangs and some other fish species and the parasite finds that handy for easy access to the fishes flesh. Secondly the blue tangs are complete idiots, they never settle down completely and will attract parasites.
    Not saying they cant live very well in an aquarium as many of use have done very well, just that they always have a slight amount of stress going on.
    Stress is what allows the fish’s external immune system, the mucus coating, to weaken in its content and chemical make up, allowing the infestation to get worse.
    White spot rarely does the killing; but it does weaken the fish and will increase stress levels.
    It’s the next phase in your aquariums protist evolution that kills them, that being velvet. They are both of the protista group and protists are always abundant in your aquarium, that’s just nature.
    One precedes the other always and the velvet amongst white spot is almost impossible to differentiate from the other, until it attacks its weaker cousin and velvet becomes the more dominant protist on your fish and in your aquarium!
    The advice on leaving it for some more time is needed due to the use of live rock and a weak community of bacteria grazing protists.
    When live rock is collected it normally has abundant sponges, a part from other soft and hard encrusting life and many life forms with in. These sponges as one example are extremely toxic on average and expel these toxins from day one as a stress defence mechanism. This can go on for months and possibly more months into the future until stability is achieved and the amount of toxins from these forms of life reduces or they die and are gone. That doesn’t happen in a good reef tank.
    As a marine aquarium ages and attains more stability, these issues are less of a problem.
    Once the protists that graze out most of the original bacteria that runs the nitrogen oxidation parts of the cycle in a new aquarium, this will help keep the parasitic forms of protists under some control. The more robust protists will continue this for the life of your aquarium, as they are much stronger and will feed on their own kind and especially the weaker relatives, white spot and velvet.
    Protists are in or will appear in a marine aquarium and especially an invert rich aquarium no matter what!
    In time the beneficial varieties will dominate your aquarium and you will love the hobby.
    Oh and most of what causes stress in your aquarium beyond the nitrite cycles components and left over elements, will not show on the average test kits.
     
  12. pkc

    pkc

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    Last edited: 9 Mar 2013
  13. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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