DSB's, yes or no, what's your opinion

Discussion in 'Biological/Natural Filtration and Deep Sand Beds' started by magman, 4 Jan 2011.

Voter count: 61
?

Are DSB's worth their sump space under a tank

  1. Yes, they worth their space in a sump

    72.1%
  2. No, they not worth the sump space

    27.9%
  1. magman

    magman

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    What are the pro's and cons of DSB's, are they old school or the "in thing" at the moment.
    Are they a substitute for all things, or are they a cheap means of nitrate filtration

    What's your opinion on them
     
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  3. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    DSB's are a part of the puzzle, i believe they have their place when used IN combination with other filtration methods that require them. NeoZeo and Zeolith route discourage there use as it goes against that they are trying to achieve with their products.

    I believe that their best use would be used in tandem with macro-algae and used in a refugium
     
  4. Manic

    Manic Moderator

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    They suck. Just look at how many amazing tanks run dsb's on reefcentral and zeovit and then tell me they are worth it (I was being sarcastic, none of them run dsb's). Hardly anyone overseas uses them and they are said to be years ahead of us in terms of the marine keeping industry, doesn't that say enough.
     
    Last edited: 4 Jan 2011
  5. sihaya

    sihaya

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    It depends who you ask. The idea has been around almost as long as reef keeping has been around. The popularity of them waxes and wanes

    Here's some overviews:

    Mar Subst Opt Art

    Deep Sand Beds
     
  6. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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  7. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    there is also nothing wrong with RDSB's instead of having them in the sump. I have a 100L bucket with water flowing over it and out.
     
  8. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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  9. SchyffS

    SchyffS Reef Aquarist

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    I would only use a dsb to host beneficial critters, worms etc in the hope that their eggs and lavae will be released into the water and be used by the corals and fish as a natural food source...same way a crypic zone works i suppose. Also to plant a mangrove plant in it to remove heavy metals.
    BUT, i wont advocate it as a one stop denitrification filter.
     
  10. magman

    magman Thread Starter

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    Guys, the thread is about the main sump under a dt, if I had space too, I would also plumb in a RDSB, but lets avoid going off topic from the sump under the DT
     
  11. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    can we add the monthly cost of running a DSB agains NeoZeo and Zeolith.
    Time to maintain?
    Extra electricity costs?

    So the total effort.

    Yes DSB, bigger sump as you all say, so more glass initially.
     
  12. DudleyD

    DudleyD

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    After a year I spent 4 hours getting rid of mine.Went over to LR in the sump will check if it makes a diference.
     
  13. crispin

    crispin

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    if used properly and allowed to mature i think they are worth their weight in any system. the simplicity, easy and inexpesivness, plus the added environment for micro critters earn my vote with ease.

    haveing said that, i also find that most insump dsbs are too small for the footprint they have with regards to the stocking ratio and feeding of fish and corals often found in systems, but given space and time dsb make a huge amount of sence to me.
     
  14. Manic

    Manic Moderator

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    Monthly running cost of just the zeo reactor or say np pellets is min. Zeo stones cost around R200 which is a once off thing. A bottle of vodka will last a few years so that doesn't count. The pump uses around 18w, so nothing again. Results are priceless.
     
  15. cswhitehead

    cswhitehead

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    i have a dsb but i am thinking of changing to live rock after this. even the guys that voted for dsb are saying that it has to be huge in order to be effective if you had to answer the question as it was asked would your answers be the same? "are dsb's worth there sump space UNDER a tank?" obviously most of our sumps are under our tanks and most of us don't have the space to run a dsb that is sufficient in size in our sumps UNDER our tanks. so now my question wont it be better to use the space in a sump for live rock? as far as i can understand lr will be more beneficial in the limited amount of space.
     
    Last edited: 4 Jan 2011
  16. leslie hempel

    leslie hempel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    i think a DSB has its place if correctly proportioned as stated, but i for one have never run one on my system and have not had a problem. my reasoning was my moving alot and the time it would take to establish. so a no go for me. a cryptic zone would offer me more benefit and i like my large water changes monthly.

    up country where such large and freely available waterchange routines arent available i would imagine would yield a different way of thinking towoards DSB's
     
  17. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    What is the total surface area provided by both mediums for the beneficial bacteria. Sand vs life rock. Or for that matter bio-balls and ceramic rings, or even hair curlers. Or whatever medium you fancy. So in my mind, the total space needed for DSB or life rock chamber is the same, or actually the life rock option needs bigger chamber.

    Life rock, in the sump or display do the same thing. And for me, spending from 100 to 150 per kg on LR, I would rather have it in the display.
     
  18. cswhitehead

    cswhitehead

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    thanks for that, so from that is it fair to conclude that if you have sufficient space then a dsb will be a good idea but if you are limited for space then its better to use live rock?
    ok im going to rephrase my question a bit. if you do not have enough space for a sufficient dsb will it still be worth having it or would it be better to put lr in that space provided that there is enough flow to prevent detris from settling
     
  19. herkie

    herkie R.I.P.

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    My best tank ever had 3 compartments in its sump. 1 x Return/skimmer, 1 x DSB, 1 x pump chamber. The DSB area was about 10% 0f the tank area.
    [​IMG]
    Old school, if so I am old and just like DSB's cause it has worked for me. By the way, if I add up all the Zululand DSB volumes taken out I will not have to go and collect sand at the next suitable spring tide! C'mon I'm waiting for the offers guys!
     
  20. Falcon

    Falcon

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    I agree riaan,plus liverock has less anaerobic zones for denitrification,how did anyone get to the conclusion that liverock is better than dsb to remove nitrates?was it a thumb suck?:whistling:

    If you have somehow calculated it then please enlighten us as this is important to me,thanks.Posting random unsubstantiated comments will not help us take this hobby forward....


    From a volume and anaerobic area point of view its much more efficient to have a dsb in almost any size compartment compare to liverock EXCEPT if you have more vertical volume rather than floor area,in this scenario its debatable but most people don't really have that situation often.
     
    Last edited: 4 Jan 2011
  21. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    If you have limited space, then you most likely do not have place for cheato either.

    Or have cheato ball above DSB or live rock. But that again implies live rock stack to be low, as to leave space for cheato. where with DSB, you can use that space above the sand. So with live rock and cheato, how much rock can you fit? will it be enough?

    Catch 22
     
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