DSB Turning Black.. What does this mean?

Discussion in 'Biological/Natural Filtration and Deep Sand Beds' started by King_Triton, 25 Nov 2014.

  1. King_Triton

    King_Triton

    Joined:
    27 Sep 2012
    Posts:
    1,021
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Midrand
    So I noticed that a small portion of my kinda shallow (about 10 to 12cms) DSB is turning black. Is this something I should be worried about?

    It should be noted that the sand that makes up this DSB if from old DSB which barely covered the area of this new tank's DSB and the remaining sand is all the substrate from my old DT. It was layered in this way. Not sure if this is maybe some die off from critters that was in the old sand. This tank is now running for about 4 to 5 months now.

    20141123_144026.jpg
     
  2. AdS Guest




    to hide all adverts.
  3. wookie

    wookie

    Joined:
    18 Apr 2014
    Posts:
    319
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    pinetown kzn
    From what i know with dsb they will turn dark as the denitryfying bacteria start working where there is no oxygen which is how it works but maybe someone here with more forknowledge can help, i believe they can take up to 6 months to cure.
     
  4. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    23,157
    Likes Received:
    1,230
    Location:
    Centurion
    will discolor as it ages.
     
  5. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    14 Dec 2008
    Posts:
    16,770
    Likes Received:
    582
    Location:
    Sandton
  6. King_Triton

    King_Triton Thread Starter

    Joined:
    27 Sep 2012
    Posts:
    1,021
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Midrand
    Thanks will read up on it. So should I just leave it be? Can I add more sand above it as I was planning, in order to make the dsb deeper...
     
  7. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    14 Dec 2008
    Posts:
    16,770
    Likes Received:
    582
    Location:
    Sandton
    why add if its working? what are your params?
     
  8. King_Triton

    King_Triton Thread Starter

    Joined:
    27 Sep 2012
    Posts:
    1,021
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Midrand
    Nitrates 0
    Ammonia 0
    Ph 8.3
    Phosphates about 0.04

    Running nothing but the dsb and skimmer. Do 75L water changes every two weeks
     
  9. King_Triton

    King_Triton Thread Starter

    Joined:
    27 Sep 2012
    Posts:
    1,021
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Midrand
    Im fond of adding live sand when I go to the coast every December
     
  10. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    14 Dec 2008
    Posts:
    16,770
    Likes Received:
    582
    Location:
    Sandton
    you can run a little GFH to remove the last of the PO4

    tank volume?
     
  11. King_Triton

    King_Triton Thread Starter

    Joined:
    27 Sep 2012
    Posts:
    1,021
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Midrand
    Yeah I think I need to look into some method to help with PO4.

    Total volume 950L
     
  12. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    14 Dec 2008
    Posts:
    16,770
    Likes Received:
    582
    Location:
    Sandton
    for 950L you do 75L water change, i really dont see any benefit to that at all
    7.9% every 2 weeks, better off running a macro algae refugium :)
     
    Nemos Janitor likes this.
  13. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

    Joined:
    7 Feb 2009
    Posts:
    8,384
    Likes Received:
    286
    Location:
    Joe's Mountain
    Coincidences??

    RHF has a water change chemistry thing on R2R. The more reefers that follow those threads the better general understanding of all things chemistry.

    The current one is on water changes and sump sizes. @dallasg , might be a good idea to take extracts out of this and do something similar on a weekly basis.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  14. King_Triton

    King_Triton Thread Starter

    Joined:
    27 Sep 2012
    Posts:
    1,021
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Midrand
    The water changes are more to replenish trace elements. I also do not dose anything into my tank. Something I want to look into though in the near future as I would like to start adding sps to my current lps and softy system
     
  15. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

    Joined:
    7 Feb 2009
    Posts:
    8,384
    Likes Received:
    286
    Location:
    Joe's Mountain
    Ok, so let's look at it from a logical point of view. In your 75 liter water change, how much trace eliments are in that 75 liters.

    Now how much trace eliments are consumed in the 950l system in the 2 weeks just prior to the water change?

    If you don't know, then, you will have a deficiency or build up of trace eliments.
     
  16. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    23,157
    Likes Received:
    1,230
    Location:
    Centurion
    Well, even a too small water change is still better than no water change.
    It will still replenish some of the elements, macro and micro.

    Softy dominated systems do not consume that fast amounts of macro elements needed as in full blown SPS systems. I take my own system for example, I should do 150L water change minimum per week. In reality I do maybe 150L a month. I dose nothing else. No bacteria dosing, nor any chemicals. Yet I get good growth out of the softies. Tell my Pincushions to slow down.

    Even if he siphon the substrate clean during the water change, he is taking enough rubbish out of the tank to make a difference.

    Every system is different. But if this system is thriving on the current husbandry routine, he must have hit the sweet spot on what his system wants. Changing to SPS, yes then the current small water changes will become insufficient and needs to become larger and more frequent, or chemicals needs to be added.
     
    King_Triton likes this.
  17. King_Triton

    King_Triton Thread Starter

    Joined:
    27 Sep 2012
    Posts:
    1,021
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Midrand
    That is very true Riaan. I beleive this too... I am not a person who likes to stick to the do's and dont's set out int his hobby and I also look at the health of my inhabitants and do not see any issues by my routine currently.

    My tank only has softies and LPS, and there has never been an issue. I will start dosing chemicals once i start keeping SPS. for now my system is as simple as can be. I can leave it for weeks without an issue. The only issue I have is with a bit of PO4 which has cut down a lot. My tank is almost totally algae free.. however I now would like to keep a spot of algae here or there as my tangs and foxface seem to like it.
     
  18. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    14 Dec 2008
    Posts:
    16,770
    Likes Received:
    582
    Location:
    Sandton
    while it seems i am against water changes, i am not, i am against doing them for the wrong reasons, i do believe that once or twice a year one can do a 50% water change to reset what ever build ups we have, eg sulphur etc, however doing WC for nutrient export in a percentage less than your nutrient generation is false hope

    from previous posts and advice i have been given over the years

     
  19. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    23,157
    Likes Received:
    1,230
    Location:
    Centurion
    Ok, let me play with numbers.

    Say we add 15 pieces of nasties a week. Starting off with 50. So at end of week 1 we have 65 pieces of nasties in the tank. Next week 80, if no water change. With 10% water change for that week, we removed 6.5 pieces of nasties, end result 58.5 units. Third part of table is where you do 10% only every second week

    [TABLE=head]No Water change | | With water change | | | Every second week | |
    | Result | Before WC | Removed | Result | Before WC | Removed | Result
    Start | 50.0 | | | 50.0 | | | 50.0
    1 | 65.0 | 65.0 | 6.5 | 58.5 | 65.0 | | 65.0
    2 | 80.0 | 73.5 | 7.4 | 66.2 | 80.0 | 8.0 | 72.0
    3 | 95.0 | 81.2 | 8.1 | 73.0 | 87.0 | | 87.0
    4 | 110.0 | 88.0 | 8.8 | 79.2 | 102.0 | 10.2 | 91.8
    5 | 125.0 | 94.2 | 9.4 | 84.8 | 106.8 | | 106.8
    6 | 140.0 | 99.8 | 10.0 | 89.8 | 121.8 | 12.2 | 109.6
    7 | 155.0 | 104.8 | 10.5 | 94.3 | 124.6 | | 124.6
    8 | 170.0 | 109.3 | 10.9 | 98.4 | 139.6 | 14.0 | 125.7
    9 | 185.0 | 113.4 | 11.3 | 102.1 | 140.7 | | 140.7
    10 | 200.0 | 117.1 | 11.7 | 105.4 | 155.7 | 15.6 | 140.1
    11 | 215.0 | 120.4 | 12.0 | 108.3 | 155.1 | | 155.1
    12 | 230.0 | 123.3 | 12.3 | 111.0 | 170.1 | 17.0 | 153.1
    13 | 245.0 | 126.0 | 12.6 | 113.4 | 168.1 | | 168.1
    14 | 260.0 | 128.4 | 12.8 | 115.6 | 183.1 | 18.3 | 164.8
    15 | 275.0 | 130.6 | 13.1 | 117.5 | 179.8 | | 179.8
    16 | 290.0 | 132.5 | 13.2 | 119.2 | 194.8 | 19.5 | 175.3
    17 | 305.0 | 134.2 | 13.4 | 120.8 | 190.3 | | 190.3
    18 | 320.0 | 135.8 | 13.6 | 122.2 | 205.3 | 20.5 | 184.8
    19 | 335.0 | 137.2 | 13.7 | 123.5 | 199.8 | | 199.8
    20 | 350.0 | 138.5 | 13.9 | 124.7 | 214.8 | 21.5 | 193.3
    21 | 365.0 | 139.7 | 14.0 | 125.7 | 208.3 | | 208.3
    22 | 380.0 | 140.7 | 14.1 | 126.6 | 223.3 | 22.3 | 201.0
    23 | 395.0 | 141.6 | 14.2 | 127.5 | 216.0 | | 216.0
    24 | 410.0 | 142.5 | 14.2 | 128.2 | 231.0 | 23.1 | 207.9
    25 | 425.0 | 143.2 | 14.3 | 128.9 | 222.9 | | 222.9
    26 | 440.0 | 143.9 | 14.4 | 129.5 | 237.9 | 23.8 | 214.1
    [/TABLE]

    End of this 6 month period, if you do a big 50% water change. You got 440 nasties with no water changes and you half that to 220. Still about 100 more than doing your regular 10% water changes per week. Basically the same as doing 10% every second week.

    But.
    Even with 10% per week, you still have an increase in nasties. This graph is set so that the the increase in nasties is highlighted. To show
     
  20. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    23,157
    Likes Received:
    1,230
    Location:
    Centurion
    changing the impurities added per week to 5.5, with 10% water change, I stay on same level nasties per week.

    Without water change, end week 26, we sit with 193 nasties. A 50% water change will only drop that to 96.5.

    Doing 10% every second week, we sit at 86.5. Still slightly better.

    Every tank is different.
     
  21. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    14 Dec 2008
    Posts:
    16,770
    Likes Received:
    582
    Location:
    Sandton
    you assuming a constant increase, this changes, but running bio-cubes and no water changes i have 0 nasties in nutrients
     
Recent Posts

Loading...
Similar Threads - Turning Black does Forum Date
Zoas turning black Soft Corals 21 Aug 2014
Returning New Members 12 Sep 2016
Sps turning white SPS Corals 16 Aug 2016
Substrate turning green Nuisance Algae 30 Jun 2016
Torch coral turning brown General Discussions and Advice 26 Oct 2015
Urgent help needed Zoa's turning white and dying. Urgent Help Needed 25 Oct 2015
Returning member New Members 21 Sep 2015