DSB or not...

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by Arries, 19 Oct 2011.

  1. Arries

    Arries

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    Hey Guys..

    Ok here's the thing..Im busy with a 1.2m tank.
    Need advice on lights but opend a thread for that..
    Other thing im not sure of is 2 run a dsb or not..
    I heard that it works well but can also cause a system 'crash'..
    Ai i dono..Any advise pls..
    Does a dsb need maintenace,wot sand to put in and any other usefull info..
    Anything plz guys as im new 2 the "sump" thing..Only have experience in the Nano side...

    Thanx Alot...

    Armand
    :thumbup::1:
     
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  3. jacoc

    jacoc

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    how did or do you find the workings of the nano's filtering system if i may ask...?
     
  4. Arries

    Arries Thread Starter

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    Well I got the boyu Tl-450 and its ok....did some upgrades on the skimmer..Added purigen and phosguard with the phosphate and nitrate filter pads...and it does a pretty good job...
     
  5. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    I used on a standard 1.2 Daro tank a standard 90L Daro as a sump. With TS1 skimmer. First chamber just big enough. Nice size DSB in the middle.

    most likely due to incorrect setup. Must have good flow rate across to prevent too much settlement.

    DSB VS NP-reactor. Another option. Which one is cheaper to setup?
     
  6. Dewald@Dorry

    Dewald@Dorry

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    DSB's work very well as de-nitrators if you set it up correctly as with most forms of de-nitration.

    I would recommend that you need atleast 40% to 50% (Bigger is always better) of your main tanks footprint for a proper size DSB also of atleast 12 to 15cm deep.

    Needs to be longer than its wide and use very fine sand that is properly washed out. This then needs to be mixed though-outly with your salt water, leave to settle and let the cycle begin with recommened 1kg of live rock for every 10liters of water in your display tank.
     
  7. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    while my advice is go with what you understand and can maintain each has its own pros and cons, some people never have the cons and some are plagued by them, at the end of the day you must decided which route YOU want and that falls within your time available for good husbandry
     
  8. Arries

    Arries Thread Starter

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    @dallasg
    Yes I C wot u are sayn...thing is wot kind of maintenance does a dsb require..and wot is the alternative...

    @Dewald@Dorry
    But wot sand do I use...Playsand,aragonite or wot...wot else do I need 2 add or do 2 a dsb for it 2 work correct...

    Sry for all the dump questions guys but I'm someone that likes 2 do something once and rite...And I like 2 get all the pro's and Cons on everything...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  9. jacoc

    jacoc

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    Getting back to my question on how did you find the system you have? ...like dallas also said...you have to be happy with what you use...I say if you were successful with the boyu then why change what you know...the only difference is you now go bigger and it's that simple...dsb like any other filtration has pros and cons...if you were a nube then shop around but seeing you already have a system that works and you know the ins and outs of it...why change it only to maybe have a lot of hustles later on..
     
  10. ScottK

    ScottK

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    I created a new DSB a couple of months back, i rinsed the sand thoroughly with tap water. I don't recall rinsing or mixing this with salt water. Would that cause the DSB to not work?

    I am moving house in a couple of days. When I move the tank should i maybe disturb the DSB or do you think it would be best just to leave it alone?
     
  11. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    well i talk from my experience only, theory is wonderful but we live in the real world.

    well the DSB should be disturbed as little as possible with regards to the sand, but it should be kept free of major detritus build up, with good slow laminar flow over it so that only the heaviest of particles settle on it. the sand should be between 12-15cm deep, one can use playsand but i found that it caused issues for me and swapped it for superfine crushed coral.
    there are 3 steps to the nitrogen cycle 1.Ammonia to Nitrite 2. Nitrite to Nitrate 3. Nitrate to Free nitrogen thats the simple version. now a DSB will do steps 1 and 2 the same way bio-balls and other media do, within a week or 2 or as bacteria populate it, but the use of a DSB mainly by reefers is to get step 3 done, now this can take up to a few months for the DSB to become effective for step 3. now one needs to have a large DSB for step 3 to really be effective and not everyone can have that space so i have 2 suggestions, which i am sure some reefers might fall done with me saying this, here they are. put in a DSB as big as you can fit and suppliment it with various other options. you must have a good skimmer, we can get more on this later, and then add various other measures to help the DSB cope until its running a 100% and aid with its small size, the options are Phos removers and nitrate removers with regular 5-10% weekly water changes to start, in the beginning this should be fine but as the tank matures you may change to more volume or less frequently but your tank will tell you what it needs. One can also employ a Remote DSB or RDSB which is a DSB in a bucket outside your sump whether it be next to it or in another room/outside.

    there are other options for filtering like using Prodibio which then allows one you have just a skimmer, carbon and phos remover, its easy for beginners and tried and tested, then if one wants to go more there is zeoliths which is filtering using zeolites for media which there is Zeovit and NeoZeo way. if you want to know more let me know.

    but having re-read this and still thinking about how i do things, there is no real right or wrong way, our end goal should be about making the environment as close to nature as possible so our livestock can thrive.

    so i am not going to push my thoughts yet until you are happy with the nitrogen cycle and decided what fits in your regime, based on atleast an hour a day for the tank etc

    i hope this makes sense again
     
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  12. Braco

    Braco

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    thanks for the info...i had a DSB removed it..and now i have not tried it again..i like the RDSB idea..sounds interesting...i might try it out..not sure how it will all fit together but will for sure give it a try..;)
     
  13. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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  14. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
     
  15. ken

    ken

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    @dallasg.. Hey buddy.. Sorry for the hijack but I've also got a new tank.. Same size and I am also considering an external dsb.. But I had an idea and please give me ur suggestion on it.. I've got a whole lot of live rock.. Could I not put all the rock in a big drum and run it as part of the system? Like an rdsb but it gona be a rlrb... Which of the two would u rate is better? Or would provide more de nitrification ?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  16. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    hi @ken
    that would work as well, infact it would be easier to keep the LR clean as access is easier.
    nice idea! :thumbup:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  17. Dewald@Dorry

    Dewald@Dorry

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    Playsand will work just fine and is cheap. I also suggest that you go and google DSB's and perform some reseach before you embark on this journey. Like all the other forms of de-nitration, if you implement it incorrect, it will not work.

    In my experiance every signle person I came across that stated their DSB's dont work, did something wrong!
     
  18. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    that and they take months to kick in
     
  19. Braco

    Braco

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    ok i need some advise this is what i have currently the RDSB seems pretty inviting at the moment this is my sump layout if possible could i place DSB in chamber 2..or should i partition chamber 3 and place it there..?

    [​IMG]
     
  20. ken

    ken

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    Awesomeness.. Ima give it a try.. Would u rate I should supply lighting for all the critters and a powerhead or two to keep things in suspension?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  21. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

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    @ Braco Not a good idea. Remove liverock, replace with skimmer, and place rock in 2. Add baffle before return pump and fill with aragonite sugarfine at least 12cm deep.

    To maximise effeciency of filtration, stick to the followin priciple: mechanical, followed by biological, followed by chemical.

    This very simple order ensures that the workload on bacteria is reduced and expensive chemical media needs replacement less often,m

    The way it current is, you are reducing effeciency of liverock, as it is bound to have settling areas between rocks for detritus to accumilate. Having skimmer first will allow it to remove particulates, before your bacteria have to start working in the Lr and future dsb. Even better would be a filter sock pre skimmer. I would also move the first baffle down, I.e. Have water have to move over exit baffle of skimmer chamber. Place powerhead or even better 2 x stream type pumps between lr.

    If yu are using activated carbon, purigen, po4 remover, place in last ( soon to be 4th) compartment.

    Regarding the remote LR idea: yes it will work, but not as effectively as a properly set up dsb. Thinks surface area for bacterial biofilm, more is more in this case. The surface area of aragonite is far superior to playsand and liverock, especially when the right shape is used.
     
    Last edited: 20 Oct 2011
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