DSB in 65L Nano

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Ok, so I've been doing a lot of reading on the advantages of running a DSB and would like to give it a try. I have a 65L tank that I'm no longer using (only has some LR in it with crushed coral substrate)

How feasible would it be to run this setup with a 75mm DSB. Full height of the tank is 600mm? I don't have a sump or anything for that tank, so would like to keep it all "in tank"

Does anyone have any pictures of a similar setup?
 
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I would not go for a dsb of anything less than 10cm... and from what I have heard the stream should flow 'comfortably' over the DSB, with relatively no interference.
 

Galibore

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Hi Sparky,

75mm is a bit shallow but you should still get some denitrification from that provided you use a very fine substrate, ie. finer than sugar.

It is not ideal though and there are some guys claiming that tanks with in sump DSB's suffer from "Old Tank Syndrome" quicker.

HTH
 
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Will keep that in mind, thanks.

Want to try a few things and see what works for me, problem is nothing worth doing happens fast in the tank... lol... so got to wait and see what the effects are, then moving what works into the bigger tank.
 
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Should I rather try the 100mm first, as suggested previously? Main points being I would like to have as much natural filtration as possible. Don't mind doing frequent water changes to keep things in check.
 

Ocean

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and try and put your LR on a stand of sume sort
 

Galibore

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Yes 10cm will give you better denitrification, but still go for very fine substrate.

First of all, make sure you will be comfortable with the way in-tank DSB look. Some guys (myself included) don't like the look.
 

jacquesb

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Hi Sparky - Try it out and let us know what YOU think about it. I would be nice to know what your own thoughts are regarding the water parameters and micro critters.

Just a FYI (BUT take into account it is a 300 litre tank), I have a second 1.2 metre tank that I ONLY have an in-tank DSB, and a little WeiPro SA2013 skimmer running on it. The water parameters are all 100% perfect. I don't have a LOT of life in the tank yet. Only 2 damsels/chromis, and some tiny zooanthid frags... nothing else....
Actually - let me rephrase - I have a LOT of micro critters/worms - but I don't have any other fish/corals in the tank (the tnak only has 2 x 30 watt T8 fluorescents on) - I have NO live rock - and no other filtration - only the DSB and the small skimmer (in-tank)...
 
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I have a 10 cm dsb in a 600x600 octagon. I have ot sloped from front to back so the front is about 7cm and the back 13cm...looks ok.
 
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Hi Sparky,

75mm is a bit shallow but you should still get some denitrification from that provided you use a very fine substrate, ie. finer than sugar.

It is not ideal though and there are some guys claiming that tanks with in sump DSB's suffer from "Old Tank Syndrome" quicker.

HTH
Galibore, what is "Old Tank Syndrome" ?
 

Mike

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Galibore, what is "Old Tank Syndrome" ?
Old tank syndrome, is, simply put, when the tank stops working, the liverock becomes clogged, as does a DSB so they no longer denitrify as well or at all in the worst cases, another possible cause is the tank ending up in a mono culture biologically, most of the beneficial bacteria die off leaving a single (species?) of bacteria, which won't keep your tank in good condition.
The current theories for reucing the affects are, changing a few bits of your liverock or some sand with another reefer (not sure about that one) introducing new bacteria cultures (sounds better to me) or the old one of completely stripping down your tank, flogging off the old rock to some mug and starting again with new (i know this has happened a few times)
 
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Ok, so that makes sense, but, would getting a few creatures that burrow through the sand not help that? Or would it defeat the point of having a DSB?
 

Quinton

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Sparky, I'll be keeping a beady eye on this thread, as I'd love to put a DSB in my 50cm cube (130 litre). While I'm also a newbie, I've read quite a bit about this, so in answer to some of your questions, here's what I've gathered from my reading so far. The rest of you feel free to chime in and disagree:

1. Depth 10cm minimum, 15cm even better.
2. You don't want critters turning over the sand. This can release bad stuff (primarily hydrogen sulphide) into the water.
3. Fine-grained oolitic sand (i.e. small egg-shaped grains averaging 0.125mm) is recommended. Finer sand causes packing too tight to support the required orgainsms, while coarser sand leads to greater detritus accumulation, higher nutrient levels, and lower buffering capacity.
4. I agree with you the DSB can look "damn fine" ;-)

I've been reading the following books by Deelbeck & Sprung, which I can highly recommend (particularly volume 3 when it comes to filtration and tank design).

Amazon.com: The Reef Aquarium: A Comprehensive Guide to the Identification and Care of Tropical Marine Invertebrates (Volume 1): J. Charles Delbeek,Julian Sprung,Charles Delbeek: Books
Amazon.com: The Reef Aquarium: A Comprehensive Guide to the Identification and Care of Tropical Marine Invertebrates (Vol 2): Julian Sprung,J. Charles Delbeek: Books
Amazon.com: The Reef Aquarium: Science, Art, and Technology, Vol. 3: Julian Sprung,J. Charles Delbeek: Books

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Old tank syndrome, is, simply put, when the tank stops working, the liverock becomes clogged, as does a DSB so they no longer denitrify as well or at all in the worst cases, another possible cause is the tank ending up in a mono culture biologically, most of the beneficial bacteria die off leaving a single (species?) of bacteria, which won't keep your tank in good condition.
The current theories for reucing the affects are, changing a few bits of your liverock or some sand with another reefer (not sure about that one) introducing new bacteria cultures (sounds better to me) or the old one of completely stripping down your tank, flogging off the old rock to some mug and starting again with new (i know this has happened a few times)
How do you know when this happens ?

The tank crashes ?

Any sort of time frame ?
 
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Ok, so I'm going to get the stuff this weekend (if work will leave me alone!). I'm guessing the easiest way to do this is to empty the tank completely. Could I reuse the existing water, and would the tank go through a full cycle (4 weeks+)?
 

Galibore

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How do you know when this happens ?

The tank crashes ?

Any sort of time frame ?

Never happened to me but if I would venture a guess I'd say your tank will stop converting Nitrite and Ammonia to Nitrate.
 
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For a long term solution....

Maybe run 2 DSB's, about 1 (or more) years apart from start... then completely shut down one, replace it with new substrate (while th other one is still running), then run both for a year or two... by that time the new one should be thriving, and the other could be replaced... and continue like that..

On the Live rock side... maybe continuously replace pieces over time... perhaps not haing a piece inside for more that 2 years???

Anyone think these are feasible ideas?
 

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