Does Live rock fall last in your budjet!?

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by finrott, 28 Nov 2011.

  1. finrott

    finrott

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    I’m interested to know of what level of importance do people think live/dead rock is to you setting up your reef aquarium? Let’s say a rating from 1-10.
    I think this is a very important topic to discuss for newbies. I find so many people spend thousands on filtration and lighting then take a short cut when acquiring or aquscaping their rock. Also what are people’s thoughts on using Kenya live rock? I personally think it is a tank killer....:020:
     
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  3. butcherman

    butcherman Moderator MASA Contributor

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    are you pro or anti live rock?
     
  4. finrott

    finrott Thread Starter

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    Pro live rock.... Only way to go. I specifically just dont like kenya live rock
     
  5. pXius

    pXius

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    The general rule of thumb is 10% of your volume should be live rock. However the importance of that ratio will differ from system to system. For example, if you're running a large ATS and skimmer live rock would be less important compared to a system with a ts1 and mini dsb.

    Another good example is Zeo. The system is so starved, theres nothing for large colonies of bacteria to live off, so you wouldn't need that much bacterial surface area(live rock).

    Personally I'm a live rock fan, especially Guns and Roses, no but seriously, its the best natural filtration available.
     
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  6. leslie hempel

    leslie hempel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    its not a priority but it is important, i have always built my systems up with the majority of base rock and added a few kg of LR from various regions for biodiversity..

    so if i used 100kg base rock i would innoculate it with 5-10kg of LR but up my dosing routine (buffer, mag, iodine, calcium) to allow corraline colinisation quicker..

    i think if you want a full blown reef effect fairly quickly and are going to put a load on the system in a short space of time the more LR the better but i generally allow the system to mature at its own pace over time..

    but

    if you have time my method works very well provided there is a low to gradual increase in bioload.. as pretty much like a DSB would take 6 months to start working anerobically so would the base rock (aerobically, and dependant on density anerobicallyaswell)..

    i suppose it comes down to the availability of cash you have at your disposal.. for me a small amount of LR, base rock and a big skimmer is the way to go..
     
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  7. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

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    You going to have to substantiate this statement. My previous setup was run on 100% kenyan rock, and apparently it was a healthy and good looking tank:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: 28 Nov 2011
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  8. Mc

    Mc

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    I think live rock is very important specially in that a nano that doesn't have that much other filteration. I have somewhere between 15 and 20kgs mixed LR in my 140L tank .
    I think the main thing is the rockwork needs to be open so that the water can flow through and around it, and it needs to form a nice structure that doesn't look over croweded so that it looks like you are keeping live rock instead of a reef. Don't just pile it in there.
    As far as the kenya goes I have got a bit of it and it isn't as pourous but for I don't think its that bad.
     
  9. leslie hempel

    leslie hempel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    i think he may be refferring to the shape and bulkiness of it Ivan, but lets see what aaron replies..

    the very fact that it has a smaller matrix of pores within the rock makes it a better candidate for anerobic filtration as well as aerobic.. its bulkiness and lack of interesting shapes is its biggest downfall, but from a filtration perspective it offeres the best of both worlds..
     
  10. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

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    A really valid question, especially considering the cost of liverock. Modern developments in terms of filtration, often mention that less live rock is required than in a traditional Berlin System. Whether this is a good thing, I doubt.

    Think real estate for more than just bacteria.........
     
  11. ReefMaster

    ReefMaster

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    This is a no brainer - LR 'Rock'

    Consider that we are trying to replicate the conditions of the ocean where its a perfect ecosystem. Our tanks being a closed system makes it even more of a challenge to maintain equilibrium.

    To further complicate matters, we use a Sump and salt mix, but that is another discussion altogether.

    In the Main Tank, the 3 most important components are LR (see below), Salt Water (Salt Water mix in preference to NSW) and the most often forgotten about a good substrate (Caribsea Aragalive - all the way).

    In a closed system we need good filtration (Sump an maybe DSB another hectic discussion) LR and substrate for the micro-organisms to flourish to help break down matter not required in the system naturally

    Both Quantity and quality of LR is important. I would say buy the best you can afford. Its not about the weight of LR, its the reverse, how pourous it is. The best way to judge is if you compare size for size, the more porous one will be lighter. Absolutely nothing wrong with Kenyan LR IMHO. I decided to go mostly Fiji because I love the crevices and folds in the rock and more importantly cos I struck a good deal at the same price as Kenyan

    Lastly, what is the point of buying expensive corals and fish and then skimping on LR and a good substrate. Is the objective not to try and maintain a system so that the fish and corals can survive for longer in the most natural way possible.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: 28 Nov 2011
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  12. mytank

    mytank

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    I tend to agree with you here. The question I have is Fiji seems to be just pure hard rock not to pourous. Is that true?
     
  13. finrott

    finrott Thread Starter

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    not sayn that kenya live rock cant do the trick.. its more a case of it is way heavier and more difficult to aquascape. Just sayn that it leaves more room for newbies to make common errors.
     
  14. finrott

    finrott Thread Starter

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    ok i suppose i cant complain about the kenya stuff that much... i got a kick ass blue acro from you about 4 years ago:thumbup:
     
  15. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    "Live Rock" no mater what type or its origin, is only live if it is collected, stored and then shipped correctly. Unfortunately, no mater where the live rock comes from, none of the exporters can get the LR shipped correctly and " Live". The cost of shipping live rock wet and keeping it alive being the most inhibiting factor.

    Live rock is normally shipped in polystyrene boxes with a little damp newspaper to keep it moist. Buy the time it arrives at the LFS 95% of the life on the rock is dead. The life that does remain is normally the unwanted stuff like algae, aiptasia etc.

    All live rock requires a CITES permit to export and import. And some origins of LR are being closed by governments to protect the marine life. This will mean that LR will soon become a very expensive luxury. IMO a very overrated one at that.



    There is another option that is fast becoming an alternative to "Live Rock". Dead rock. Dead rock can be shipped in a container via "Ship". That means rock and gravel can be shipped in a container at a vastly reduced price and it does not require a CITES permit.

    We brought in a container of this dry rock from Indonesia about six months ago and " Nemos Installations" has set up a number of tanks without any issues. The tanks seem to cycle faster and we don't get the algae blooms and aiptasia issues.

    So when one purchases " Live Rock" and is paying R100+ per kg, one has to really think about what you are actually getting. And is it really live.
     
    Last edited: 28 Nov 2011
  16. finrott

    finrott Thread Starter

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    well i think... u used to live in cape town right?
     
  17. saaid

    saaid

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    Seems you just had a bad experience with the rock you purchased :whistling:
     
  18. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

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    One of these:???
    [​IMG]
    Or these:
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    Sorry for derailing the thread.
     
    Last edited: 28 Nov 2011
  19. finrott

    finrott Thread Starter

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    hahaha that looks about right... as i said its not what the rock does that concerns me but rather its structure. You just cant beat the way malaysia or fiji looks/works.
     
  20. finrott

    finrott Thread Starter

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    Dude look at the left hand flat rock on the side, imagine that was a piece of malaysian rock!!! You could have placed waaay more corals on that slope :tt2:
     
  21. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

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    only to have them stung by the hammer........
     
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