Do we make our live stock soft?

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by vatso, 1 Feb 2010.

  1. vatso

    vatso

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    Me again

    so the fact we target feed & the like - why is it the stuff, never lives as long in our tanks like in the wild? the wild is just that a hard place...

    what are your feeling about this?
     
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  3. Matt

    Matt MASA Contributor

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    Some reefers here have kept fish well over 10 years. I think most fish deaths are due to non-ideal water parameters etc.
     
  4. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    yip i agree with Matt,
    also we become lazy over time with feeding/maint etc

    and glass boxes arent natural
     
  5. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish MASA Contributor

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    I agree with getting lazy in terms of feeding. I know many, and I was also one of this kind, feed the fish just enough to survive. Water quality becomes an issue for our corals if we feed to much. A skimmer is often undersized, so the food brakes down to ammonia, etc. We want to skim the dirt out, before it breakes down.
    I also believe, the chemical war between our corals is not very healthy on a long term for our fish. That´s why filtration with activated carbon is so important.

    I DO NOT AGREE WITH DYING FISH CAUSED BY BAD WATERPARAMETER.

    Why?

    I was running my first small hatchery with a undersized skimmer and filtration. Broodstock, larvae rearing and grow out was in one system. I was running the system with 60 mg/l nitrate and had no problems with eggs, larvae, juveniles or broodstock.
    But my food is a bit different. 1000 mg/kg vitamin C, 200 ppm astaxanthin, 5% spirulina, salmon oil, etc.
    My fish is healthy and their immune system is very strong. But all these nice and healthy ingredients messing up the water quality. Not a problem for me, I don´t keep corals in there. I feed my fish until the don´t want anymore. Do that with yours and you will see, nitrate and phosphat will become an issue, because filtration in any kind is not sufficient enough.
    We try to go the middle way. We keep species from different oceans, fish and corals.
    It is easy to do LPS and/or SPS. It is easier to do just softies, but softies and hard corals together in such a little amount of water (compared to the ocean) is a tough challenge. On top of it, we like to have plenty of fish.

    So what now? Better planning from the beginning with a list of waste producers.
    Forget about mandarins, but Anthias for example produce a huge load of waste.
    Better planning means more money to spend and if we spend to much on hardware, it will take much longer to fill the tank with the wanted species.
    My exwife told me to stop smoking or not buying any fish or coral for my tank. I stopped smoking. So the minister of finance also becomes an issue.
     
  6. chikaboo

    chikaboo

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    One of the reasons why I dont have lots of corals .... I love to feed my fish as much as they can eat - they are truly spoilt ... and lots of variety ... then again I got a big a$$ skimmer and 2 tons of water to dilute their poo and uneaten foods - I have deaths of fish but thats because poor husbandry or just a oversight on my part - but this year gonna venture into the coral world a bit more see how to achieve a balance....
     
  7. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish MASA Contributor

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    In my opinion, with a big skimmer, big filter, filtration always with a bit of activated carbon and the use of carbon sources (vodka, lactose powder, etc.), we will be able to keep plenty of corals and overstock the tank with fish, without having water quality issues. Not a problem, but a very sensitive way to go until finally it will be balanced.

    The safe way to understand, how to do it and to see before and after, you caan find here.

    Vodka Dosing by 'Genetics' and 'Stony_Corals' - Reefkeeping.com
     
  8. chikaboo

    chikaboo

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    Thanx LuckyFish - excellent reading - but too scared to go this route of vodka dosing untill I've done more research but thanx for the link....
     
  9. crispin

    crispin

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    or we keep fish in systems that arent natural for them, always under stress and thsu reduce their life span
     
  10. chikaboo

    chikaboo

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    What are the chances of our tank kept pets that have been with us a few years actually living a longer if they were left in the wild? Think about the predators and food source their living conditions are not always that ideal ..... so we go to my sig that we doing the best we can with what we got.... and lets face it guys ... if we were not passionate about what we doing then we would not be listening to forums advice to try and achieve those "perfect ocean" conditions...
     
  11. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish MASA Contributor

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    Believe me, if you do it, as explained in there, you are safe.
    The most important things is, to tie up your syringe at the Vodka bottle.
    I did not and on morning, I was half a sleep, I added more than double the amount, because I used the wrong syringe. Not a problem for big fish, but problems with larvae.

    I use carbon sources for many years and never had a problem.
    The only dangerous part is the user itself.
     
  12. vatso

    vatso Thread Starter

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    It sounds brilliant to dose vodka - I am like the rest scared as hell it can do harm.

    what is funny we will buy a product from a shop & because it has a sticker with some words on it we believe it's "Safe"

    for all we know stability is vodka :) there is nothing on the bottle that says what's in it??? could even be RO water
     
  13. chikaboo

    chikaboo

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    Anyone here volunteering the taste test for stability? Might be cheaper than going to the bottle store:lol:
     
  14. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish MASA Contributor

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    YEAH, you are damn right. I had years ago trace element supplements tested in a lab.
    Different brands and you know what? All were crap. There was a trace of this and that in there.

    A few people (I think they are called sponsors) might not like it, but it is cheaper and better to make your own stuff. At least you know what´s in there.

    Would you buy whiskey and coke already mixed in a tin? To much money for to lttle whiskey. Am I right? Who buys this stuff? The lazy ones. Just like our hobby.
    I can say it in this thread as well. With the food available in the LFS, I would not get such big cluster eggs and such healthy larvae. That is a fact!
     
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