Different rock help and some

Discussion in 'Beginner Discussions' started by jeanpaul, 28 Sep 2014.

  1. jeanpaul

    jeanpaul

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    Hi masa

    Oky so i have alot of questions regarding rock.

    1)what is base rock,
    live rock,
    Cured live rock,
    dead rock,
    dead live rock
    (something i missed?)
    Perhaps photos will help

    2)does taking rock from a tank that has been running for xxx amount of years,mean its live rock?

    3)in what category will rock fall thats taken from sea locally

    4) do you need live rock when starting a system,or can you take rock and dose special blend

    5)what do you do with these types of rock when you get them for example put them straight in your tank or leave it outside to dry

    6) when rock has been lying outside in rain or mud ect or been standing in a garage ect,what to do then with it.

    7)how do you clean them and get rid of everything.

    Think that's that for know

    Thanks
     
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  3. TaahirS

    TaahirS MASA Contributor

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    Base rock =generic rock that isn't inhabited by micro organisms yet

    Live rock = rock that's used for scaping in marine tanks also inhabits micro organisms

    Cured live rock = rock that comes from a tank with a heater and flow pump that is already inhabited with micro organisms

    Dead rock and dead live rock = rock that has been left out of water, all of the micro organisms has died

    If rock has been in an established tank for a while means it is cured (already inhabited with micro organisms)

    Live rock is taken from the sea

    It would be advisable to cycle the tank with rock(base or live) and special blend. Special blend is bacteria (micro organisms) and by using this you are putting bacteria into the water and rock provides surface area for the bacteria to live

    You don't have to leave it to dry you can just put it back into the tank

    If it's lying outside then it becomes dead rock

    You can clean it by leaving it out to dry and rinsing it in RO water afterwards

    This is my understanding of it (correct me if I'm wrong)
     
  4. tekkengal

    tekkengal Moderator

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    1. Base Rock
    Base Rock is rock that has no life on it whatsoever. It is the plain rock that you can buy from the petstore that is sitting in a box and not in the tank. Normally much cheaper than live rock (although the premium stuff can still be quite pricey).

    Live Rock
    This is rock that has nitrifying bacteria contained within it. This helps with the filtration element in your tank. The rock normally has other types of life on it such as bristleworms, corraline algae (and the other types of algae), etc. There is also the added possibility that you may get hitchhikers (both good and bad) as well such as aiptasia, majano and gorilla crabs. You may get lucky and get a coral but this is not the norm.

    Cured Live Rock
    When live rock is transported from shop (or where ever you bought it from) to your home tank, it is normally exposed to air for a duration of time resulting in the organisms living in it to die. The dead organisms start decaying which causes your tank to go through a nitrogen cycle. Once the cycle is complete (i.e. no longer ammonia and nitrite readings), the rock is considered cured.

    Dead Rock, Dead Live Rock
    Essentially live rock that has been taken out of the tank and left to dry out. You can still use this however you may need to do acid baths/cook the rock (NOT IN A POT THOUGH, google cooking live rock) to get rid of the phosphates that may have accumulated by having all the organisms die in it.

    2. Yes.
    3. Yes. Don't go and take the rock from the ocean though. This is illegal.
    4. Through advancements in the hobby, you technically can get away without having rock in your system by supplementing it with products like matrix, biopellets etc. It does however add stress to your fish as they would not have a place to hide.
    In terms of having to use live rock, no you don't. I have started my tank using 99% base rock (I had three extra small pieces from my other tank that I added to my sump) and all is good in the tank. You do need nitrifying bacterial products, like special blend, to get your baterial population going but it can be done. Just be patient with going this route though.

    5. With live rock, you can quarantine it in another tank to check for hitchhikers or chuck it straight into your main tank. You will be wasting your money if you dry out the rock because you are essentially paying for the live bacteria that is contained within the rock.

    With base/dead rock, you don't have to have a tank running to keep them. You may want to clean them out to prevent phosphates from leaching resulting in algae growing on the rock.

    6. Acid bath/cook the rock. Cooking is just a term for cycling in the dark etc. Don't ever boil live rock in a pot. Google is your friend when it comes to cleaning rock.

    7. Live rock - quarantine it.
    Dead rock - see point 6.

    Hope this helps!
     
  5. carlosdeandrade

    carlosdeandrade

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    Don't forget fake rock, also, some base rock is actually man made.

    It's always advisable to cycle any live rock that was bought. If transferred immediately from a established tank to a new tank, very little cycling will be needed.

    Bacterial additives, that add live bacteria to your tank, will aid in the process of "cycling" your rock to maturity.

    Personally I prefer dead rock that has been dried in the sun as this will rid the rock of any unwanted pests like Aiptasia and even whitespot.

    Some even soak their rock in potassium permanganate/ bleach/acid to leach the PO4 out of the rock before adding it to the tank. Any rock can be a PO4 trap, which might cause algal problems later.

    Personally I have placed LR in a drum and used Lanthium Chrloride with a skimmer. This binds to the PO4 and the skimmer removes the excess PO4.
     
  6. jeanpaul

    jeanpaul Thread Starter

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    Thanks alot

    Finally got a more clear answer.

    @tekkengal- the acid bath, i see people use muriatic acid, is there a other more common name, and isn't this dangerous when adding the rock back in a tank, chemicals leaching?

    If you decide to start with the base rock only is there "good" tipes of rock to look for
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  7. UncleFausto

    UncleFausto

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    I'm now wondering if my man made rock that I only washed with RO Water was the poisoning factor in the death of a cleaner shrimp this week.
     
  8. jeanpaul

    jeanpaul Thread Starter

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    Thanks for advice @carlosdeandrade

    I see you also mentioned soaking in bleach/ acid so i take it no harm comes when you put the rock in.

    This maybre stupid question but are we talking about normal household bleach here
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  9. flappy

    flappy

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    Just beware of second hand live rock in terms of leaching of phosphates and unwanted hitchhikers
     
  10. tekkengal

    tekkengal Moderator

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    You can use pool acid (muriatic acid) or bleach. The most dangerous part of this is the chlorine in the solution however it will dissipate after a while and you can soak the rock in ro before adding to your tank.

    If I remember correctly, the acid eats away at the outside layer of rock and removes the phosphates in this process. I do stand to be corrected though, the article I read was a long time ago.
    @Hammerhead performed this procedure a few months back, maybe he can give more insight as to how the rock was after the dip and how long he waited?

    prepping reef bones with acid - Page 2 - Marine Aquariums South Africa

    With regards to base rock, I used the prime reef rock. It will look a little different from the normal live rock in terms of colouration however as time goes by corraline and other tank things will grow on it to make it look more like ocean rock.

    You can also make your own rock if you are the diy type:
    Making Live Rock - Marine Aquariums South Africa
    DIY Live Rock - Marine Aquariums South Africa
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  11. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Look at real reef rock, a true sustainable LR solution
     
  12. Hammerhead

    Hammerhead

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    Yup nothing to it. The acid bath basically strips the top layer off and removes dead matter from within as well. Advisable for rock that has been left out a while to dry out. No signs of gha on them yet. Just be sure to add acid to water and wear gloves, ratio i used was 1:9 acid to water. Normal pool acid. Reaction takes about 20min. Once all bubbling has stopped its over. You can add a box of bicarb to neutralise the acid. Soak an rinse in ro a few times and you good to go.....
     
  13. jeanpaul

    jeanpaul Thread Starter

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    Thank you all

    This definitely helped me alot.:thumbup:

    Will experiment with the acid bath method.

    Before you do the acid bath can you high pressure clean it with normal tap water then dip it, and then use ro water to rinse it off.

    After rinsing it of, can it be put directly in a tank or must you still do the cooking method afterwards
     
  14. Hammerhead

    Hammerhead

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    Yes you can to get the loose dirt off, LR is brittle so a strong blast may break it. Once acid dipped you can soak in RO and then rinse off. No need for further cooking. I was a bit weary so dropped a box of bicarb into the Acid after the reaction stopped (about 30min). I then soaked in RO for a few days, gave a final rinse in RO and then into tank.
     
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  15. jeanpaul

    jeanpaul Thread Starter

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    Thanks @Hammerhead

    Will try it and post results with some pics

    Thanks for everyone's info
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
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