Designer or Genetically modified fish?

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by Nemos Janitor, 15 May 2014.

  1. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    We hear of all these designer fish for sale at designer prices. Some are color morphs, others have no tail, others cross bread.

    Is there some sort of ethics or conscience one should have? Should reefers support these designer fish? Just wondering where the hobby heading.
     
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  3. jclaas

    jclaas

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    We should support genetically unmodified designer fish. Example: Miss-bar clownfish etc.
     
  4. Fraser W

    Fraser W Swazi Reefer

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    i wonder how many of these fish that do not have the right genectic get ditched? ?
     
    Last edited: 15 May 2014
  5. butcherman

    butcherman Moderator MASA Contributor

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    do hybrids occur in nature? yes most defiantly as we hear Julian Sprung talk about a few years back. So why not in our tanks?

    I was under the impression misbaring was a sign of inbreeding and there for weak geans?
     
  6. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Are clowns heading the down the same route as snakes? Try and find a normal corn snake these days, all the shops seem to sell are het albino caramel X anerythristic lavender morphs.
    How long till a good old true perc becomes nothing but a legend.
     
  7. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Also need to remember that there is huge difference between genetically modified and selectively bred
     
  8. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor Thread Starter

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    Exactly David. Whilst captive bread fish is a positive. Should we not be introducing a wild caught specimen every now and again to increase the gene pool? Is all this in breeding not also bringing out other weaknesses?
     
  9. jclaas

    jclaas

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    I agree that inbreeding causes weak genes and as a result fish become more prone to disease. Some regard a F10 generation of inbreeding the maximum where F1 generation will refer to the wild caught broodstock and F2 their offspring and so forth; but it will not be the reason for mis-baring.

    Yes one may introduce a wild specimen every few generations or even a captive bred specimen from a completely separate wild caught F1 generation.
     
    Last edited: 15 May 2014
  10. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Although inbreeding maybe a concern, I doubt it will be a problem with fish. Just the shear number of offspring and the fact they we breed for different traits with each successive pairing means it shouldn't be a concern.
    If you look at other mariculture industries, abalone, kob etc, they use few brood stock for many many years and they don't have problems with inbreeding (yet).
     
  11. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor Thread Starter

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    So if we breed these selective forms. Is it ethical and how does it effect ones conscience.
     
    Last edited: 15 May 2014
  12. jclaas

    jclaas

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    Can you elaborate on the forms please, Keith?
     
  13. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor Thread Starter

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    All of them. Picasso's, platinums, miss-bars, albinos, red eye's, from a clown fish point of view. Even inter species.
     
  14. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Selective forms as in things nature would have not allowed to last, so Picasso, snowflakes etc
     
  15. jclaas

    jclaas

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    Yes sorry i just realized previous post was dumb.
     
  16. jclaas

    jclaas

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    IMO i say it is ethical. When i think of unethical think of a scientist going inside fish DNA with a camera and tool to make changes.
     
  17. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor Thread Starter

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    Let's look at a circus of years ago. It was the rage and every parent took their children to see the animals perform. Today there is a big drive that teaching animals for performance is inhumane.

    Should we be breeding these variants and ignoring the natural form? Especially as the drive to allow breeding and propagation is based upon protection of our oceans. Should we then not rather be concentrating on the original and not a modified version. Or is the modified version just a cash cow or status upper for the breeder?
     
    Last edited: 15 May 2014
  18. Istio

    Istio

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    Quite conflicted myself. Personally don't like the designer marine fishes being produced and yet I use to enjoy my koi pond, full of yellow and orange carps, no end.
     
  19. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    As long as breeding stops harvesting from the oceans, then I see absolutely zero conflict of interest.
    MPA's protect the diversity of the ocean, to consider our tanks as a means of preservation is just delusional.
     
  20. jclaas

    jclaas

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    Yes one must breed these variants. Whether one breeds the modified version or the natural form, one' will still be elevating the pressure from the oceans.
     
  21. Pantoffel

    Pantoffel

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    I don't know if some of you guys know the gouldian finches? What happened with them was that everyone bred the 'design' a nice looking finch breeding mutation after mutation. Getting more money for every new mutation.

    Everybody forgot about the normal pure little gouldian coz it was worth nothing.

    Australia banned all exports on their birds (where the gouldian originated from) so what happened with all these inbreeding to get the mutations there are no more strong healthy genes in SA. So what happend, now the poor old little pure natural gouldian are in HIGH demand IF you can find any in SA.

    I dont know if this is applicable to fish but it makes you think how our human race operate.
     
    Last edited: 15 May 2014
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