Collecting water from the Two Oceans - the truth

Discussion in 'Water Parameters and Additives' started by Midnight Reefer, 21 Oct 2013.

  1. Midnight Reefer

    Midnight Reefer

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    The question has been asked, testing has been asked, parameters have been asked. All with no direct answer.

    Is it good for coral? is it dirty? does it make a difference?

    The truth is actually quite obvious but not exactly simple.

    Starting, where does it come from?.......The harbour.....ok answered

    Is it clean? - The water pumped in goes through huge banks of sand filters and anthracite filters. Anthracite is really expensive coal for those unfamiliar. All the animals on exhibit, quarintine, whatever, live in this water in an open system. i.e filtered water flowing in constantly with overflowing water discarded back to sea. Even in the heavily fed exhibits, algae growth on the display panes is quite minimal. Some exhibits don't need the glass cleaned for up to a week.
    Answer, it easily supports marine life with no excessive algae growth.

    Harbour???!!!! oil and heavy metals??? - cant really answer this, keep in mind I have been an aquarist for a month now, the plumbing is complex!!! but no problems with these substances.


    Whats the calcium alk blah blah blah??? - Easy to answer from my experience with the coral exhibit and water changing, its not bad, not at all. Corals, clams and inverts survive.

    Water quality is done everyday, measuring Salinity, temp, Ph and dissolved O2, signed off. Ph's are always between 7.7 and 8.1 for all exhibits and sumps, sometimes higher but whatever. Note, this applies differently for the coral tanks, cannot provide details but Ph 8.1-8.35 with no additives.
    The devil is in the detail, "survive", as opposed to thrive. Why?? even easier answer

    Go for a scuba dive in simons town and take a look at what is bloody living there!!!!

    Our atlantic ocean does not really have thriving coral reefs such as in Durban or Mozam with the indian ocean. You cannot expect the water from our ocean to equal an ideal syntheticly made water with a good reef salt with Ca this and alk this, its viz is also not great.

    It's our sea here in the cape, not the red sea in egypt.

    Answer - Its hasnt got mind blowing, super ideal and perfect parameters, but it works! its natural and 'as is'. Soft and LPS aquariums, awesome for a water change. SPS.......if you keep them properly, you understand that I need not bother answer this.

    I hope this finally answers some questions
     
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  3. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Thanks for that honest and open answer.

    As I heard the Cape water are rather nutrient rich. Is that so
     
  4. Fuzzy

    Fuzzy

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    interesting...if i may ask,what do you guys charge for water? ...and...the water thats being bought/sold is it running in tanks or drums or back up drums or what?...just curious...
     
  5. Midnight Reefer

    Midnight Reefer Thread Starter

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    Oh yes indeed, thus the poor viz while diving, usually about 10m or so.

    Think the sand filters remove it but I honestly dunno, the exhibits are crystal clear and the amount of phyto and rotifers fed everyday to exhibits with local animals.......well shit, its alot. and alot of brine shrimpies
     
  6. Fuzzy

    Fuzzy

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    ...or at which point is the water "taken" from...
     
  7. STC-1000

    STC-1000 In Reefers Rehab

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    2oceans water is only good for F.O tanks,its high in nitrates and mainly phosphate .FYI ...the coral display which imo looks like crap is run using water from the science iinstitute in seapoint ....the water has absolutely no values and imo is a waste even tho its free, its ok to use when startn a new tank, specially wen its a large amt of water needed, but as for maintanance, why would u wana use dirty water to replace dirty water, the idea of doing wc's is to remove dirt ie. Nitrates,phosphates etc anf replace with clean water.

    Just my 2c
     
  8. Midnight Reefer

    Midnight Reefer Thread Starter

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    @Fuzzy we are extremely cheap at R50,5463 and 36c per millilitre, but for you I could make a 3% discount, if you pay now!

    Sorry, had to. You purchase a year membership from the visitors center for R200 or something, i dunno?

    This entitles you to free entry whenever and 400L seawater a week, which some retail shops abuse and sell as 'salt mix'......I heard from a schizophrenic person once.........

    Where we keep it, whew.

    All clean 'filtered open ocean' water goes to our 'diversity' sump, its underground and a million litres or something crazy, constantly also fed 24/7 with overflowing to sea. the sump is the temp of whatever the harbour water is.

    The other giant heated sumps etc for warmwater exhibits, feed off of this one forming, a kinda cascade effect of filtered ocean water, 24/7 which equals 4.42857, or all the time I guess.

    the life support systems are what they are so always running. But, the tap which provides members with water in front, is from the diversity sump, you can feel it comes out pretty cold!

    Thee plumbing is absolutely mind boggling!!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  9. butcherman

    butcherman Moderator MASA Contributor

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    @STC1000 this is a little harsh I was at 2 oceans last year and their tanks look very natural

    to each his own, but why are you dissing free water?

    you have tested it? If so how did you test is?
     
  10. butcherman

    butcherman Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Now this would be amazing to see indeed
     
  11. Fuzzy

    Fuzzy

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    only 3% ? ... lol... ok thanks was just wondering..have never been there so maybe il take you up on that discount one day :biggrin: ...plumbing etc sounds very cool...
     
  12. STC-1000

    STC-1000 In Reefers Rehab

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    I honestly don't knw what u saw,but there is only 1 coral display and its just 1 very very big leather, that's almost it, seriously some newbies have better looking tanks, so no I'm nt bein harsh, just realistic, I've once seen a review on the entire aquarium and most were bad comments,people saying it was a waste of their money etc ... I'm sorry but its the honest truth

    As for the 'free' water ... U included are of the reefers very pasionate about this hobby, would you feel comfortable using water proven over and over dirty in your aquarium?

    And yes, I have tested,many other reefers did too including a lfs or 2 and yeah, the water has low to no kh,very low other 'reef' values BUT always have a high reading of nitrates and phosphates ....

    I hope this sheds more light

    NB: wat I won't ever do is mislead newbies to using water I'm personally unsure of,also won't refer people to a place me and a whole lot others didn nt see the 'value for money' in it ....
     
  13. Midnight Reefer

    Midnight Reefer Thread Starter

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    @STC-1000

    "Just my 2c" and fact are not quite related too much. in reference to the 'coral display', you mentioned it "is run using water from the science institute in seapoint". Fixed 'institute' for you there.

    I run the coral exhibit now and only took over mid sept, I know exactly where the water comes from and do a water change every 2nd to 3rd day because of the....'not ideal quality'. I am not afraid of admitting that. I also have not moved any rock or coral.

    I don't think a logical conclusion is worth the effort in compiling why water would not be sent from sea point.

    The coral display is....not at its potential, nutrient processing and skimming is almost absent. These things are not ideal but you can't win a war in a day, I'm not a miracle worker.

    And please point out to me the part where is says the collected water is phosphate and nitrate free?
     
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  14. mandarinman

    mandarinman

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    The perams vary but the last time I tested with a hanna test kit phos was 0.36ppm . If you alternate waterchanges between two oceans and synthetic it is fine. It is good to use for starting up tanks as the extra phos, nitrate and iron ( if the dry dock has been flushed recently iron content will be higher) will help in accelerating bacterial growth due to availability of needed nutrients
     
    Last edited: 21 Oct 2013
  15. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    The aquarium isn't designed to display ONE coral tank. The Aquarium does as its name suggests, showcase the diversity of our two oceans. I feel the staff at the aquarium do an excellent job at giving the public a taste of what our oceans have to offer. One could find fault in every tank if you wanted, but for every tiny fault you could find countless more positive points.

    Don't call our aquarium crap, it has provid me and many others with countless hours of enjoyment. If you don't want to use the water then don't use it. I know lots of people, including LFS that use the water without issues.
     
    Last edited: 21 Oct 2013
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  16. brentv

    brentv

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    From having the opportunity of a behind the scenes tour of the Aquarium, I'm impressed with how it operates.
    I believe that there are guys like @Midnight Reefer that are putting effort into getting as much information about the new technological advances in our hobby into a place that has been running for some time.
    I would rather say we as aquarists should rather try put in proactive advice towards any possible improvements that the aquarium could make, than run it down as it is a good educational and entertaining place.
    My family especially my toddler love going to the aquarium and we have our annual pass.
     
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  17. Midnight Reefer

    Midnight Reefer Thread Starter

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    459b has smacked it on the head, the coral tank is the only closed system and remember, still 'as is' from Nov 1995 so yes outdated a bit.

    The water is offered as an extra, we do not go out of our way to make it 'awesome', it's just another bit of plumbing to us aquarists.
     
  18. mandarinman

    mandarinman

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    The aquarists do give positive encouragement. It is those who dont have tanks that have the time to break down everything cos they dont know any better
     
  19. Midnight Reefer

    Midnight Reefer Thread Starter

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    Thankyou for the support towards the TOA but @STC-1000

    I appreciate your opinion and really just want to share information. The last thing I want is to provoke hostility.

    Remember that I am not a hobbyist anymore. I was appointed as aquarist and to the coral tank because of my scientific background of geochemistry, but more importantly my passion for reefkeeping, which I was almost at the point of abandoning due to career choices.

    Do not think I'm a Dr of biology etc, I had 2 modules of 2nd year biology at university.

    My previous work was with everyone's favourite diamond 'supplier' and nothing to do with marine life. Bear in mind I could have anonymously signed up and posted questions with false details to mask my occupation.

    Some keen members know how my 'fingers were burnt' recently. But here I am sharing what I know, brave or stupid?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  20. butcherman

    butcherman Moderator MASA Contributor

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    2Oceans 18 months ago

    [​IMG]

    softies look great, the sps are slightly brown but still look reasonable
    @Midnight Reefer is this the tank you look after now?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  21. Fuzzy

    Fuzzy

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    ok my 2c...either way... even if the water is like coke and the tank is like a mud puddle,you guys still have an aquarium!! or should i say oceanarium.... here we got haarties aquarium,just freshwater...and pta zoo ,fresh and bit of marine..which i go to both often buyt yeah cant compare to what you guys have... so appreciate what you have... :)
     
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