Collecting liverock

Discussion in 'Diving, Collecting and Environmental Discussions' started by 459b, 16 May 2013.

  1. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Origionaly posted by Lobsterlady:

    Collecting live rock
    The short answer to the question of collecting live rock is:
    No, it is not legal to collect live rock, without the necessary permits.

    You would have to have a recreational permit for all the organisms on the rock (invertebrates, coral, seaweeds,etc.) and stay within the baglimit according to the Marine Living Resources Act of 1998.
    As far as the actual rock - it is illegal to collect rock or sand without a permit according to the Mineral and Resources Development Act of 2002 and the Sea-shores Act of 1935.

    See the detailed answer from Wayne Evans from Ezemvelo KwaZulu-Natal below:
    "Regarding "Live Rock",for which there is currently no definition - the provisions of the MLRA applies only to the organisms that are attached to the rock. These organisms most commonly are invertebrate fish, coral and aquatic plants - or a combination thereof. In order to collect these organisms you would need a recreational permit and be within the bag limit. In an MPA or World Heritage site one cannot collect these at all.

    Regarding the actual rock itself - it is not legal to remove sea sand or rock ( even in small quantities) from the coastal zone without a permit. This is illegal in terms of at least two different Acts that I can think of, as well as being a listed activity (mining) in terms of NEMA.

    Firstly, in terms of the MINERAL AND PETROLEUM RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT ACT 28 OF 2002 -
    (4) No person may prospect for or remove, mine, conduct technical co-operation operations, reconnaissance operations, explore for and produce any mineral or petroleum or commence with any work incidental thereto on any area without -
    (a) an approved environmental management programme or approved environmental management plan, as the case may be;
    (b) a reconnaissance permission, prospecting right, permission to remove, mining right, mining permit, retention permit, technical co-operation permit, reconnaissance permit, exploration right or production right, as the case may be; and
    (c) notifying and consulting with the land owner or lawful occupier of the land in question.

    Note that the definition of "mineral includes any rock and sand.

    Secondly, in terms of the SEA-SHORE ACT 21 OF 1935 - see below Section 12(A) :
    12A Offences and penalties

    (1) Any person who-
    (a) uses any portion of the sea-shore or sea of which the State President is by section 2 declared to be the owner, for any of the purposes mentioned in section 3 (1), without that portion having been leased to him for that purpose;
    (b) removes any material contemplated in section 3 (2) from the sea-shore or sea of which the State President is by section 2 declared to be the owner, without a permit granted under section 3 (2); or

    Section 3 (2) as follows :
    3(2) The Minister may permit, on such conditions as he may deem expedient and at such a consideration as he may determine, the removal of any material, except precious stones as defined in section 1 of the Precious Stones Act, 1964 (Act 73 of 1964), natural oil, precious metals or any base mineral as defined in section 1 of the Mining Rights Act, 1967 (Act 20 of 1967), or any aquatic plant, shell or salt as defined in section 1 of the Sea Fisheries Act, 1973 (Act 58 of 1973), from the sea-shore and the sea of which the State President is by section 2 declared to be the owner.

    So in answer to your question - and in the absence of a formal opinion from a legal practitioner - I can confirm that it is not legal to remove "live rock" without the permits as required above. "
     
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  3. Nur

    Nur Starz

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    Listing the the specific permits would be very beneficial, from what i gather:
    -1 Invertebrates
    -2 Coral
    -3 Sea weed
    -4 ?
    -5 ?
     
  4. 459b

    459b Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Most inverts, coral (excluding hard corals and gorgonians) and seaweed all fall on one the same bait collecting permit available from the post office.
    Mining permits are not a mere tick a box and buy. They require eia's, environmental management plans, public participation from affected areas etc etc.
     
  5. Nur

    Nur Starz

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    So its gona be a looooong story.. Plus i'm certain that it would not be for resale purposes so wouldnt be economically viable. Better off buying imprted LR and or seeding DIY LR. I'd go with the latter.
     
  6. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    As stated, one really has to define "Live Rock". If the "Live Rock" is rock made from sand, stone etc then the necessary permits stated are required. However if the "Live Rock" is a buildup of dead coral skeletons then a CITES permit is also required.
     
  7. Nur

    Nur Starz

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    Like i said looooong story.. I would rather be cautious than risk a hefty fine or jail time :( Not ayoba.

    Is there not also a rule that you cannot use a "hammer and chissel" or tools to collect even if you had the permits for corals?
     
  8. Xenobalistes

    Xenobalistes

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    I'm gonna continue taking live rock from the PE waters, local MCM in my area have no problem with it, and many of them have marine tanks as well.....
     
  9. 459b

    459b Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    That sort of arrogance is a great example to be setting. I think National Laws override the opinion of local officials.
     
  10. Ridwaan

    Ridwaan

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    So if I ask Zuma and Zuma say ya, then i can take live rock?
     
  11. BrandonH

    BrandonH

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    Of course you can! Just ask the Gupta's. JZ can organise anything.
     
  12. MistaOrange

    MistaOrange

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    This is an open forum do you think it's wise to openly post that?
     
  13. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    based on this.
    Many coastal reefers were advise multiple times on how to collect sand for substrate. Collect below low water mark at a remote un-polluted beach.

    This has been said many times. So is this actually illegal? Or only applies to MPA?

    I am totally against collecting rock out of the ocean. With hammer and chisel or jack-hammer or crowbar. But picking a pebble up with macro algae growth does not sound for me like mining.
     
  14. Xenobalistes

    Xenobalistes

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    When in doubt, ask the guy who will possible arrest you (done). Plus remember to scrub every grain of sand from your feet before you leave the coast - stealing grains of beach sand could make you eligible to spend some quality time with Bubba in the big house.

    The easiest way to create laws affecting the environment is to create blanket laws outlawing everything, then create exceptions as amendments to allow people to function under them. If you are unsure of what I am talking about, ask @Lucky Fish....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  15. MistaOrange

    MistaOrange

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    Why would you bring Marcel into this?
     
  16. 459b

    459b Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    For someone who is so quick to point fingers at guys for collecting fish, your stance on live rock is a bit odd.
    Seems you do as you please and read only the bits of the laws that suit you.
    I think i know a little bit more about the Luckyfish story than you, so please leave him out of this.
     
  17. Gary Roebuck

    Gary Roebuck

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    hmmm... tagging along.. always enjoy a good :61: contest..
     
  18. 459b

    459b Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    This is no contest. Law has been quoted in the first post. Any debate about it should be taken up with relevant Governmental departments.
     
  19. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    So we should not advice guys to collect sand as we used to. Until clarified.
     
  20. butcherman

    butcherman Moderator MASA Contributor

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    In terms of the law stated, No we can not collect sand.
     
  21. JamesHunter

    JamesHunter

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    I cant believe this as how can sand be seen as a a mineral.

    So if one digs out a small tree in your garden to transplant it to another property this would be illegal as no property owner has legal mineral rights to his/her land. And the sand used in the transplant is defined as a mineral???
     
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