Cheato, phosphate remover or both?

Discussion in 'Biological/Natural Filtration and Deep Sand Beds' started by Broder, 14 Apr 2008.

  1. Broder

    Broder Mudshark

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    I have been growing cheato in my sump for the last 6 months. 6 weeks ogo I started using phosphate remover. There was an instant decrease in algae. In the last 2 weeks or so the cheato has progressively died back due to lack of nutrients I assume? I have not been measuring phosphate levels as I have not found an affordable and readable test kit (the Red Sea kit is useless).

    Have I done the right thing by removing all of the cheato? My thinking was that the decaying cheato was responsible for a slight bloom in hair algae in the display over the last few days.

    Has anyone had success using both cheato and phos remover simultaneously?
     
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  3. Mike

    Mike Retired Moderator

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    Hi, welcome to MASA.

    I personally put my faith into rowaphos, rather than chaeto, using a fluidised reactor. this method is more expensive than chaeto but i believe it to be more efficient, prevention, rather than cure, is the best way to keep phosphate out of your tank.
     
  4. Galibore

    Galibore Retired Moderator

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    Having the same problem. I can't seem to keep my chaeto alive. Even under very strong lights. * sigh *
     
  5. Midasblenny

    Midasblenny

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    If your phos levels are above 0.3ppm, this will kill chaeto.
    Its great stuff for keeping levels low but cannot survive in high phos concentrations.
    Use phosphate Remover to get the levels down and then the chaeto can kick in.
     
  6. Broder

    Broder Thread Starter Mudshark

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    I'll measure the levels with my crappy Red Sea test kit this evening and see what range I'm in. How is it that elevated phosphate levels will kill cheato but not other types of algae?
     
  7. Midasblenny

    Midasblenny

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    Higher tolerance?
     
  8. lappiesreef

    lappiesreef

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    Im not sure on the high phosphate killing Chaeto, but IMHO I would go for the algae instead of the phosremover if you ahd to choose. Algae gives more benifits like toxin removal, which is also important when keeping allot of colars in close proximity...
     
  9. Alan

    Alan Admin MASA Contributor

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    I run both but also follow a heavy feeding regime in a heavily stocked tank and the chaeto does very well. The big advantage to chaeto is the amount of life it supports in the entangled web, all sorts of goggas live and breed in there.
     
  10. Alan

    Alan Admin MASA Contributor

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    Sorry how rude of me. Welcome to Masa.
     
  11. jacquesb

    jacquesb Retired Moderator

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    Welcome to MASA MudShark!

    My opinion would be: This depends on your stocking level in your tank..... As all plants and plant-like life requires SOME phosphates (very little in the case of corals, usually), I would say that I don't think that your is a case of TOO much phosphates, but a case of TOO LITTLE perhaps.

    If you feed too little, and have a reasonably sized skimmer, AS WELL AS run phosphate remover, then there would be VERY little phosphates in the water.

    Perhaps not enough to feed your current corals, as well as your chaetomorpha - therefor the death of the chaetomorpha....
     
  12. Galibore

    Galibore Retired Moderator

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    I am using a phosphate remover. Maybe there is too little phosphate?
     
  13. jacquesb

    jacquesb Retired Moderator

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    Hi Galibore - I am nearly sure that you perhaps have TOO little phosphates in your tank to keep the chaetomorpha alive.... perhaps stop with the phosphate remover for a while, and test this theory and see?

    You don't suffer from hair algae in the tank, do you?

    I'm going to give it a try. If I have an outbreak then I'll start again.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 14 Apr 2008
  14. Midasblenny

    Midasblenny

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    Perhaps?I haven`t read about any referances regards inability to grow due to too low phosphates but certainly possible.
     
  15. Broder

    Broder Thread Starter Mudshark

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    I tested the phosphate levels in my tanks with the Red Sea test kit last night andthey both register 0. Strage because I also tested the NSW I collected on sunday and that gave a reading of about 0.05ppm.

    So the question is, why do I still have algae in my tank if there is nothing feeding it?
     
  16. jacquesb

    jacquesb Retired Moderator

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    Hi MudShark - have a look at WHERE the algae is attached to - is it growing on your sand? OR on your live rock?

    This could be a case of two things -
    1) the nuisance algae IN your tank is using up the phosphates, not leaving enough for the chaetomorpha to grow
    2) you have the exact same problem I have/had, which is: you might have detritus locked INSIDE your live rock, which is releasing small amounts of phosphates/nitrates, and is acting like a fertilizer for the nuisance algae to grow

    IF you are suffering from the 2nd option - then my suggestion would be to take one by one rock out of your tank, put in a small seperate tank, with ONLY a power-head for circulation - leave this tank/rock in a dark place for ie 2 weeks, and then place it back into your main display tank.... This process is a sub-set of "cooking" your live-rock (a shortened version)....
     
  17. Broder

    Broder Thread Starter Mudshark

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    Thanks for the reply jaquesb. Has this worked for you? I'll try it if it will bring results but my algae problem is not very bad so I won't uproot my tank if I don't have to.

    My question still remains, can Phosphate remover and cheato be used simultaneously?
     
  18. jacquesb

    jacquesb Retired Moderator

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    Hi MudShark - in answer of your first question in your last post: Yes - this has (and still am - I am still busy doing it - I have +-80kg's of live rock - I have done +-20kg's already) definitely worked for me.

    Also - in answer to your main question - IF you have enough fish to feed, and have to feed often / a lot (AND you have a HUGE skimmer to remove a LOT of the crap), then YES - you can indeed use both together.

    The opposite would be true too, of course - not many fish, not feeding a lot, then NO - don't use both together.
     
  19. lanzo

    lanzo Sponsor

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    hey mudshark

    I'm using both phosreactor and cheato, my cheato didn't grow well for the first few months,then it started growing again,this was a sign that i must clean my reactor and place new media in. After i added new media, my cheto stopped growing,and cheato consumes nitrate and phos if I'm correctly.
     
  20. lanzo

    lanzo Sponsor

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    o ja and i'm doing the dark LR in bucket that jauqesb said, hopefully this will work for me too.
     
  21. Mike

    Mike Retired Moderator

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    Jacques/Lanzo,
    Putting one or two pieces of liverock in to a large container with boiling r/o helps, and is a lot quicker, i has some hydroids on a couple of my rocks, removed them and dunked them, seemed to work, the only thing is, the rock goes white and stands out a bit for a few weeks, but well worth the effort to get rid of nasties.
     
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