Carbon and supplements?

Discussion in 'Beginner Discussions' started by Tobes, 10 Feb 2008.

  1. Tobes

    Tobes Retired Moderator

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    Question for the reef doctors:

    1) Do you HAVE to run activated carbon in a marine setup?
    2) Heard that skimming removes IODENE, how do you measure that?
    3) Is IODENE replaced with water changes?
     
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  3. Rory

    Rory Admin MASA Contributor

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    1) You don't have to but most people prefer to because it helps removes toxins and any discolouration in the water. It should be replaced about every 2 weeks. (Preferably split it into 2 half doses and replace one this week and the other next week etc)

    2) You can get iodine test kits. Iodine doesn't last longer than a day or so in our systems anyway so if you would like to buffer (with iodIDE) you should do it daily.

    3) Yes if using NSW. Depends on what salt if you're using salt.
     
  4. Tobes

    Tobes Thread Starter Retired Moderator

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    I use RO water and Real Ocean salt and do 10% water changes every week. My corals seem to grow, what uses up IODENE in a system?
     
  5. Mekaeel

    Mekaeel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    well it appeares that Rory has answered your questions.i do however prefer to run Carbon activley rather than passivley.skimming removes alot of other trace elements contained in a system.that is why i mentioned in my December 2007/January 2008 featured tank thread that i do large water changes at times not because of poor water quality but rather to replace trace elements that have been removed by filteration ie. heavy skimming ;)
     
  6. jacquesb

    jacquesb Retired Moderator

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    Hi Tobes - here's my answers to your questions:
    1) ditto to what Rory said - BUT, in addition - I have 4 anemone's in my tank and +-28 corals - I use carbon to remove the chemicals they secrete that there's no chemical warefare in my tank
    2) Iodine is used by inverts, e.g. crabs/shrimps to molt, used by anemone's for health, and I am sure that corals also use iodine in some way to stay healthy - I know that pulsing xenia does not pulse at all when there's a lack of iodine in the tank's water
    3) Yes - Iodine should be replaced by water changes - BUT, seeing that I have +-40 hermit crabs and a coral banded/boxing shrimp in my tank, as well as 2 types of xenia (incl pulsing) - I manually doze iodine 2 to 3 times weekly....
     
  7. Tobes

    Tobes Thread Starter Retired Moderator

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    I don't have any anemonies and got one small hermit, one cleaner schrimp and one small cracker shrimp. Do you think I should dose IODENE or will the water changes be sufficient?
     
  8. Rory

    Rory Admin MASA Contributor

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    Water changes will never make up for stuff that is lost unless it is a 100% water change. Do the math:

    If your levels of X are 100% when you start your tank

    then they get used up and go down 40% to 60%

    You do a 50% water change and they go back to 80%

    Now they get used up a bit more, so say go down 30% (because it wont be used up as quickly if there's less of it) to 50%

    50% water change brings it back to 75%



    Now the 50% water change is pretty generous and not that likely to happen. As you can see you can never bring the levels of anything that is used up back to the initial level, ie. the level found in NSW or hopefully salt. Because of this you do get some salts that can provide higher than natural levels of alkalinity and calcium.
     
  9. jacquesb

    jacquesb Retired Moderator

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    It is up to you Tobes whether you want to doze iodine or not. Perhaps try it once - have a very CLOSE look at your life stock. If there's no negative influence, and you want to continue, do so. Otherwise, if you see your corals start closing, stop dozing iodine.
    BUT, remember, the BIGGEST and MOST important thing of keeping marines: EVERYTHING MUST BE DONE VERY SLOWLY! ONLY BAD THINGS HAPPEN QUICKLY!

    So, what I mean by that - start with a very small dosage of iodine, then increase that very slowly over a period of weeks or months, even....
     
  10. Warr7207

    Warr7207

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    How do you dose ? Is this the chemical Iodine or some sort of supplement ?
     
  11. jacquesb

    jacquesb Retired Moderator

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    Hi Warr - I started using Red Sea Iodine - But changed over to a chemical iodine. After a VERY tiny bit (I buy it in 50ml bottles and mix it with 250ml RO water) and seeing no "bad" reactions in my tank - I VERY slowly started increasing the iodine-RO mix to +-15ml to 20ml every time I doze (between once and twice a week - sometimes to 3 times a week - never more).....
     
  12. Warr7207

    Warr7207

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    Thanks, I must start dosing. I don't have a huge amount of crustaceans but the effect on the corals is what I am concerned about.
     
  13. jacquesb

    jacquesb Retired Moderator

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    Hi Warr - As I said - many people do not believe in dosing iodine (and anything else for that matter, except for calcium additives). So, you can try it for yourself.... See if it makes a difference in your system - if not - you can decide whether you want to stop or continue using it.....

    It is just that what I have read on inverts - that they do indeed require iodine - BUT, I think that this might be a controversial point of discussion.

    Many people might agree / many people might disagree......

    I dose because I believe it makes a difference. I read that nemmies requires iodine - so I dose.... I read that xenia requires iodine, so I dose.....

    That's my reasons.....
     
  14. Warr7207

    Warr7207

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    I can't see the Iodine being bad for the system. The shrimps and crabs must need some sort of Iodine. Also the Joburg systems never see NSW.
     
  15. Mekaeel

    Mekaeel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    yes makes sense,thats why i do a large water change at times and still continue to dose supplements that are showing low in my test kits.by the way i never dose iodine, as ive read somewhere its a fuel for hair algea which i have here and there
     
  16. jacquesb

    jacquesb Retired Moderator

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    Hi Mekaeel - I have just "heard" that iodine can fuel hair algae.... BUT, just in my defense - my hair algae and bryopsis algae problem is now reducing exponentially - and I am actually dosing more iodine now that ever. Green algae are like land-based plants - phosphates and nitrates make them grow - feeds them. I have never heard of anyone feeding land-based plants any iodine? If this made plants grow, then surely people would feed their land-based plants iodine? Right?
     
  17. Mekaeel

    Mekaeel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    making me think a bit now.....need to do a bit more research on iodine and algea.
     
  18. jacquesb

    jacquesb Retired Moderator

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    Hi Mekaeel - I know (as I have said - I read up on it), that all inverts do indeed require to keep their cells healthy, and the crustaceans (shrimps, crabs, pods, etc) require iodine to assist them in molting - without enough iodine, the molting process does not complete correctly and could cause the animal to die....
    I have +-40 dwarf hermits, and a boxing shrimp - and nearly EVERYONE has amphipods/copepods..... I have seen the proof that my pods molt (this happens WEEKLY) by noticing empty pods exoskeletons floating around in my tank.... I MUST have a lot more than 2000 pods creeping around in my tank (due to my in-tank DSB)....
     
  19. Mekaeel

    Mekaeel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    yes no doubt iodine is important in the tank in the cases you mentioned.i currently have over 120 hermits and 2 boxing shrimps all doing well.need to invest in a iodine test
     
  20. palmerc

    palmerc

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    There's no harm in at least trying it. If you dose accordign to instructions you will not do any harm. If you see the benefits then continue, if not leave it. It is up to each person to decide for themselves.

    As for it causign problems - I woudl gues thsi is only if you overdose. Most marien iodine supplements are designed to return iodinn levels back to NSW levels, not higher. So if it is present at those concentrations then there should not be any worries.

    If using "chemical" iodine like Jacques, if you do not know the concentration or type of iodine then you may accidentally overdose. So like him either take it very slow in the beginning, or else post what you using and system volume and I'll work out the correct dosage for your system.

    Clinton
     
  21. jacquesb

    jacquesb Retired Moderator

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    Cool! Thanks for your educated input Clinton! I really appreciate it!

    BTW: I MUST concede that the dosages I have mentioned, are on my 2 metre tank - total water volume: +-860 litres of water..... (between +-15ml to 20ml of diluted iodine - diluted 50ml to 250ml of RO water, thus: 1:5, and then 15ml in +-860 litres of water - you do the math guys)......
     
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