Brooklynella-the chances we take...

Discussion in 'Marine Fish Discussions' started by LuckyFish, 25 Sep 2010.

  1. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish MASA Contributor

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    Guys, I thought I share this as it might open up some of your eyes and make understand you guys, what chances we take.

    One of my very close friends phoned me on Friday. He told me, that he lost 4 fish so far and a few of the remaining fish are also not looking 100%.
    I was aware of the fact, that he bought recently two new fish from one of our sponsors. A powder blue tang and a cleaner wrasse. The powder blue showed some white spots, so he used this product. I think it´s called herbatana. It´s to thread white spots, but it didn´t help. He lost the new arrivals. Then unexpected over night he lost both clowns he had for a long time already. They developed very quick fin rot and died quick as well. He was working on Friday until late afternoon, so I went to his place to check out what´s happen in his tank. I already had brook in mind as the white spot treatment failed.
    When I saw his semicirculatus with cloudy eyes and covered with a white slime, his flasher wrasse with white spots around his gills and at the fins, same for the sandshifting goby, bicolor angel and scopas tang, I realised it is brook.
    His midas blenny was also missing.
    Then I saw his coral beauty. Not beautyful anymore as the eyes are cloudy, the body covered in slime and the fins are rotten. He asured me, this fish was fine the day before my visit. Just as his clowns were the day before they died.
    Brooklynella is probably the worst disease you can catch as I usually wipes out all your fish within no time. Threatment is very difficult and not with a very high success rate. Once brook strikes, plenty of other diseases support brook to finish all fish in the same system.
    Luckily I had a bucket and some nets with me and I decided quick to break down his beautiful aquascaping to take out all his fish. 90 % of his reef was transfered into a plastic baby bathtub. The Midas blenny jumped out of one of his rocks, so we (his sister and myself) could save the blenny.
    Finally I could get hold of Archilles (Thanks for your help, Shawn) and he told me what treatment I should use. Ten minutes before closing the shop, I phoned Sam´s and asked for "Myxazin". I managed to get a small bottle for 70 bucks right in time, as Friday was a public holiday. Back home I realised, I am going to braai next to a petrol pump. How stupid can a person be. Running a hatchery with the world´s only marine albinos and getting 8 brook infected fish into the same room.
    So every move has to be very thougtful and I probably washed my hands 20 times on Friday. After in total 5 hours, from arrival at his place, stripping his reef, catching his fish, speeding to Sam´s, rushing back home and putting his fish into my quarantene and treating the water, I decided to post this experience.
    I told my friend, that the whole situation is actually his own fault, because he buys as many others of you guys, his fish where he can get what he likes. Due to limited space, he doesn´t have a quarantene tank, so the new arrival ended up very quick in his DT. I told him, that I reckon that the powder blue and the cleaner wrasse were swimming at the LFS together with some wild caught clowns. He told me, that I was right and there were a few clarkiis in the same tank at the LFS.
    Brooklynella is also known as clownfish disease. It is very common that imported clowns carry brook, but show no symtoms. Fish like the powder blue, well known to catch white spots when stressed are ideal to take on the parasite and to let it multiply on the body. Once the brook army got enough numbers, they are looking for another host. Nothing better than a nice looking DT with some nice fish as new hosts.

    Treatment: Myxazin, a combination of formalin, mallachite green and something else.
    The manufacturer recommend 4ml per 60 litre tank volume. Archilles recommended to dose half every 12 hours. Which I did as I trust Shawn.
    90% waterchange daily and treatment with Myxazin every 12 hours.
    This treatment is for fish only tanks as it is toxic for invertebrates. Overdose of Myxazin will be toxic for fish as well.
    My friends fish are swimming in a bare bottom tank with just a powerhead and biological filter. No skimmer! Temperature should be not above 25 degrees as the medication sucks the oxygen. Via venturi from the powerhead, lots of air is added all the time. Treatment for 5 days in total!
    Current situation:
    After almost 36 hours since I got his brook infected fish, I did not loose one of them.
    Besides the coral beauty, all others are recovered from cloudy eyes and slime. Fish are eating, besides the coral beauty, flasherwrasse, midas, sandshifting goby.
    All fish are swimming free and they are not hiding since this morning.
    The finrot of the coral beauty reached a dangerous stage as the parts of the fins that were infected doesn´t exist anymore. The color faded on the fins and what was seethrough is gone now. The fish is battling to swin as the majority of his fins are gone. Therefore he is breathing faster than normal. Still, I think he might have a chance and hopefully he starts eating.

    For better understanding what are we might getting with new arrivals:
    We usually keep different fish species together in our DT´s and these fishes we keep are coming from different suppliers and different oceans. Fish from one part of the oceans might be sort of immune to brooklynella, but can carry the parasite. Fish from other parts of our oceans maybe were never exposed to such parasites and therefore they will catch the disease quick with a quick victory for brooklynella.
    It is like, if I would go with a slight pneumonia into the deepest south american rainforest to vistit some tribes over there. I might not even know about my pneumonia infection, but as soon as the first tribe members catches my infection, the whole tribe will be wiped out and I would be the last man standing as my immune system is good enough to win the battle against pneumonia without medication.
    This tribe story already happened donkey years ago!

    My friend is stupid, I´m stupid and many MASA members as well!
    Why:

    Every hobbyist who buys his fish from different places is taking the chance of getting a coral only tank. My friend learnt his lesson, I hopefully know exactly what I´m doing with brook in my hatchery. So for me it´s more or less a calculated risk. Still stupid of myself to get some nice brook into my hatchery.
    So if you buy your fish where it´s cheap and you don´t quarantene your new arrival, please allow myself to call you stupid. I don´t want to be rude or to provoke you guys, but I want to make you guys think!;)

    At the end of the day you stocked your tank with fish for a couple of thousand rands and the last new fish comes with some nice brooklynella.
    Is it really worth it? Stripping the reef, catching the remaining fish and to find somebody who is stupid enough to put your infected fish into his own quarantene tank?

    What I´m not going to do:
    Don´t expect me to play your trouble shooter. I did this once, because my friend is one of three guys, who can always count on my help! But only once for the same stupid mistake.
    I don´t mind to help with some advice here, as that is the main purpose for this forum.

    That is what the coral beauty looked like yesterday. Today she looks even worse. Maybe I can get some better shots tomorrow.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: 25 Sep 2010
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  3. Johan van Aardt

    Johan van Aardt I love marines [R.I.P.]

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    thanx for the detailed report marcel ill be sure to set up a temporary qaurintine for my fish as i definitely dont want this to happen
     
  4. Achilles

    Achilles

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    Hi Marcel, i hope you can save them , Brooklynella is a often a fatal disease if left too late, unlike whitespot it is able to divide and mature on the host rapidly

    The Myxazin(formaldehyde, malachite green active ingredients) and large waterchanges will definitely help. also i would start lowering the salinity as well to less than full strength seawater(Get it down slowly each day by 2-4 units a day until a minimum of 1.010), this will definitely help the fish by providing more oxygen (fresh water holds more oxygen)_during treatment and allowing their bodies to be more hydrated as well. Their mucous membranes have already been compromised and i am pretty sure they are now dealing with more than just brook but secondary infections too.When using hyposaline conditions monitor kh and make sure you keep it nice and high at around 9 constantly as it will go down as the water becomes more fresh.Also when you bring them back up to full strength sea water once they are cured do it only by 1 unit of salinity a day.

    Marine fish are always losing water to their enviroment so they need to drink alot to not get dehydrated especially with compromised membranes, lowering the salinity will make it so their metabolisms can work better and give them a chance to recover from the onslaught of the disease and even the toxic chemicals we need to use to cure them.

    Lastly i am happy that you trust me ;) i sincerely hope that you can cure the fish but you have a challenge ahead to bring full recovery with no losses at all but it is not impossible especially if one is dedicated to the cause ;)

    Your analogy of the amazon tribe is spot on some fish come in with immunity but still host a disease they do not exhibit but under the stressful conditions of a new captive environment , the disease is just waiting to pounce on the new fish or perhaps the established ones who have no immunity to it.
     
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  5. FransSny

    FransSny

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    Very nice right up Marcel, and I must say I applaud you for taking the time and effort to spend a whole saturday phoning around , catching fish to try and assist a fellow reefer (and I know how despondent this reefer feels at the moment, guys he was ready to just pack it in) , this shows real commitment from you towards the hobby and fellow hobbyists.

    You are taking one moerse chance by putting them close to your broodstock and ultimately your livelyhood, this is a sign (in my books) of not only a passionate marine keeper , but also a true friend :thumbup:

    Achilles , thanx for helping Marcel out with the info , when he phoned me I was sitting on the other side of the world and could barely hear him , and for the life of me I couldnt remember the name of the treatment. Have you ever tried using Myxazin in a DT ? I have heard of a few guys using it directly to no ill effects but not sure as the bottle doesnt list the active ingredients.

    Also (sorry for the hijack Marcell), I know Octozin is the other product by Waterlife "especially formulated" for Clownfish disease, any experience with this Shawn ?

    Marcell , BTW you can use the medication to disinfect tools , your hands etc as well. Use a bucket with double strength solution.

    Lastly I agree with Marcel , we are making the mistakes by not asking questions , looking before buying and researching well enough. We see a fish / coral and then buy it not realising that we are playing russian roulette with our prized inhabitants.

    And no IMHO it is not just up to the LFS to make the right decisions for us , we should take some responsibility as well. guys bear in mind that the LFS is also dependent on their supplyers for info etc.
     
  6. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish Thread Starter MASA Contributor

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    Shawn, Thanks for the more scientific addition to this thread. I tried to keep this story short as not everybody likes to read a long thread. Myself included!
    I also tried to keep it in a normal language as not everybody might fully understand the scientific read up. Myself included as I had to google the meaning of a few words you used. Now I know a few words more!

    Thanks Frans for your friendly addition. Hope that helps others to understand the danger of this game. Actually it is like sleeping around without a condom. You might get away with it, but in the long run the chance to catch HIV is increasing a lot with every new one night stand. She might not have Aids but is already HIV positiv.
    The fish might be brook positive without showing sysmtoms.
     
    Last edited: 26 Sep 2010
  7. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish Thread Starter MASA Contributor

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    The coral beauty is laying on it's side and is breathing heavily. She won't make it. The finrot is to far developed and swimming without fins took to much of her strength.
     
  8. Achilles

    Achilles

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    Sorry to hear about the coral beauty very sad, But if you are able to save some of these fish then at least it will be worth it and a lesson learned for your friend, never add fish to the main display without Quarantine it is the quickest route out of this hobby.Almost 90% of all marine fish carry parasites of some sort or another and some while not lethal in a wild setting become lethal very quickly in captivity.

    Frans - one can use myxazin in a Fish only with live rock main tank, i would advise not using it in a reef , it will definitely be bad for certain invertebrates and bacteria although it may not kill them like copper would, and it does degrade over time and with water changes .Octozin is if i am not mistaken waterlife's trade name for metronidazole as an active ingredient.

    helpful list of medicines and their active ingredients
    Medications-ingredients-disease treated
     
  9. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish Thread Starter MASA Contributor

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    Did an 80% water change, added myxazin and put all equipment I used into bleach.
    What a job, playing with open fire in a raffinery!
     
  10. Achilles

    Achilles

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    Marcel you have to work very carefully you dont dare risk transferring this disease to your broodstock. if you can treat in another room i would, all equipment used to treat must be kept away from your hatchery tanks. After you bleach the equip please let it air dry as well. If you use hyposalinity you will be able to do more waterchanges but you need to make sure you have a good refractometer.
     
  11. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish Thread Starter MASA Contributor

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    I know, Shawn. I was actually stupid to put them into the hatchery. I should have moved the QT into the living room. To late now. I don't want to stress his fish more than necessary and I actually wasn't prepared to move his fish. It was a quick decision, so there was no time for moving the QT. I actually haven't thought about it.
     
  12. Yuri

    Yuri

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    i think this is a lesson every reefer learns the hard way
    and the end resole is getting a quarantine tank :p

    normal it is a fast thing to get a fish in hypo salinity i have dun it in 60min
    taking a fish back to normal salinity is a slow 4 hour job
     
  13. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish Thread Starter MASA Contributor

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    Finally back online. In the meantime the Midas blenny died yesterday and the coral beauty this morning. Will post a pic of her later.
    The rest of his fish is doing well, looking healthy and is eating. He promised to set up a quarantene tank. Good, because his tank is really looking nice and his corals are growing well. It would have been a pitty if he would have sold his system and stopping with this hobby.
     
  14. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish Thread Starter MASA Contributor

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    Yeah, after almost two weeks I can upload a picture.
    So that was the coral beauty. The poor thing probably died because of the finrot and not because of the brook she had. This disease strikes very quick and comes with plenty of side effects (diseases). I´m still battling with my picasso clown since last Tuesday. He arrived with some lekker brook. Seems like it is brook training session for me at the moment.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Trev

    Trev

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    Its hard for me to look at this :(
     
  16. brandonb

    brandonb

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    I really need a QT but my father does not want to budge ... he thinks its a waste of time...doesnt want another tank, does wanna wait ... bla bla heard it all before...

    But he will have to learn the hard way unfortunately when he adds a infected fish to that lovely 3.2 meter tank full of beautiful and expensive angels and tangs that he love so much ... ( we pay so much for them.. why risk it)

    I mean to catch that fish would be one mission and to take the rest out the same...

    we have no back up tank if some thing like this happens ... by the time we can get the infected fish out... it wouldve spread through the whole tank

    tssst tsst tsst ... so old and making rookie mistakes... :nono:
     
  17. Mauritius-aquarist

    Mauritius-aquarist

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    That's very interesting and eye-opening, till now I had been considering oodinium as the only fatal disease.....thanks marcel there's always a lot to learn from people like u!
     
  18. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish Thread Starter MASA Contributor

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    When I took all his fish, that was left, I was almost sure the coral beauty will make it. The finrot increased incredibly fast, I´ve never seen something like that.
    As a summary, after treatment with myxazin, I lost his coral beauty, his midas blenny and his spotted watchman goby. But I saved his salaris blenny, yellow head sandshifter goby, flasher wrasse, banggai, scopas tang, koran angel and bicolor angel. If I had all his fish a week earlier, I probably would have saved at least another 3 to 5 of his fish. On the other hand, without this treatment, he would have lost all his fish.
     
    Last edited: 9 Oct 2010
  19. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish Thread Starter MASA Contributor

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    Hello son, howzit?

    Oodinium is a walk in the park compare to brook.
    BTW, I finally received the chrysogasters and I lost the male. He came with an injury on his left fin, covered in thick skin fungi. He couldn´t move his fin at all. Even with treatment, his fin disappeared and he died. Yuri´s chrysos are also both died due to brook. So now I am asking you for an opportunity to get my hands on a healthy pair or two. Any options?

    Regards to my daughter;)
     
  20. Yuri

    Yuri

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    from now on i will formalin dip all new fish before thy go it the quarantine tank
    3.8L(1 gallon) water for 2.7ml formalin 15min
     
  21. seank

    seank

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    This is a sad thread, but... One of the best, informative threads I have evere read. Thank you LUCKYFISH AND ACHILLES
     
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