BioPellet and ATS

Discussion in 'Chemical Filtration / Low Nutrient Systems - LNS' started by Nsteyn, 24 Nov 2010.

  1. Nsteyn

    Nsteyn

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    Hi guys, need some advise

    As an aditional export mechanism above my current dsb and Bio Pellet reactor, I am thinking of installing an algae scrubber.

    The catch is, I want it in sump, with no extra pumps etc. so have 2 options in my opinion - feeding it from my overflow, or from one of the existing mechanisms in my tank - from here then my question.

    Do you think I could use the outflow from my biopellet canister (using a ORP1000 pump) to feed my ATS?

    the drawback on this is that my outflow would then no longer be directly in front of my skimmer, as is recommended, but would flow over my ATS, through my macro algae and some liverock then over my dsb and returned to the display

    Technically I see no problem in doing this, but I am thinking about the biological implications in this - having the "waste" from the Bio Pellet run over the algae scrubber etc through the tank.

    Any ideas on this?

    Below a pic trying to demonstrate the setup im thinking about.
    The red dot is where my bio pellets currently flow into, and the arrow at the top is where I am thinking of letting it flow into...

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    why do you want to add an ATS as well?
    How high is your bioload that you need a skimmer, DSB, macroalgae, biopellets and an ATS?
     
  4. Nsteyn

    Nsteyn Thread Starter

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    Lol, yeah you are probably right, I dont have a high bioload at all, but I have this bloody hair algae problem - not on my rocks, but on the back of my tank. Biopellets is only a week in, so I should propably just be patient and wait and see if they work for me :D
     
  5. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Id say give the biopellets a while to work.
    Hair algae doesnt vanish over night, will take a few weeks till its all gone.
     
  6. mookz

    mookz

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    This sounds kinda weird, but check your tank for rusting metal, I was fighting with GHA etc for ages, kept dosing stuff and trying everything.

    So one day I moved my glass cleaner and found that it left a red mark on the glass, took it apart and it was leaching rust into the tank damn thing wasn't sealed correctly.
    I still had issues, only now that I have taken down my tank, have i found more rust, I took the sun-sun pumps apart for cleaning and to my amazement the shafts fell apart, one had a massive ball of rust on it.
    So my advise is check your pumps impellers and replace all metal impellers.

    I came to this conclusion as a friend of mine was down from the US and he is a marine biologist and he mentioned that it could have been iron in the water.
    I reckon he was spot on.
     
    Last edited: 24 Nov 2010
  7. Nsteyn

    Nsteyn Thread Starter

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    Mookz, tnx, if you will look at my main thread I have asked what could be fueling this, since I am at nerve's end with the bloody GHA, so this is an intresting observation.
    Will have a look, but out of the fist I cannot think of anything that could be rusting.. have ceramic impeller shafts etc....

    But tnx, will definately have a look.
     
  8. Goby

    Goby

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    Hi neil,

    that GHA is a bugger and i know that you have battled for quite a while now to get rid of the problem.

    Like we all know, the first thing people would recommend is to check any traces of excessive nutrients, nitrates and phosphates. Almost always when tested we will find that its very low or even undetectable. The reason experts say (and im no expert :) )
    is because the GHA consumes all of it before we can test it.

    Here is some important factors that effects algae growths

    * light
    * oxygen
    * nutrients (phosphates, silicates, iron, dissolved organic compounds),

    One of the last factors and most of the time overlooked, is temperature. I think temperature contributes a lot more to growth of GHA than we think. I personally think that anything higher than 26.5 deg will definitely fuel algae more than at a lower temp of say 25 deg.

    An interesting article that i read about GHA and how to "stun" its growth is to bring temperatures down to 74 deg F (23.3 Celcius).

    Now i wouldn't know how safe it will be for the inmates, but i'm sure it will be ok for a FO and invert tank but with corals i'm not to sure. As far as i have it corals are more likely to bleach at lower tempratures than at higher. (and that might only be over a long period?)

    Neil, my guess is that your temp is quite high, if that's the case, maybe install some fans to get it down to maybe 24 or safe 25 and see if you can stun the growth? I'm sure the corals will be fine at those temps. But like i said, i'm no expert here. lets hear what the gurus have to say about this.
     
    Last edited: 24 Nov 2010
  9. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    lowering temp by a degree or two wont do anyhting to the algae. I used to run my tank at 24 degrees and still had massive hair algae problems.
     
  10. MistaOrange

    MistaOrange

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    I've been using the bio pellets for about 3 months & still get GHA but the curious thing is or the weird thing is since I left the GHA some sort of macro algae has started & it looks like Feather Caulerpa, very stange but the GHA will be around for a while & run your skimmer wet as it will help with the GHA.
     
  11. Goby

    Goby

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    maybe the key is to run it at 23 deg or maybe even 22 .as described in the article i read. I may seem that 1 deg lower than 24 is not much, but maybe it makes a huge difference to the growth of GHA. I wouldnt know but i think its worth a try? :)

    I mean, if you look at what fuels algae there is not much we can really do. we all have tried some many methods.

    Light ( can't take that away cause the corals need the source) maybe down the photo period but i don't think that helps much either.
    Oxygen ( can't take that away cause all living organism need oxygen)

    Excessive Nutrients ( yes run big ass kick ass skimmers, run activated carbon to remove other organic waste, run phos media to reduce phospates), most of u go this route ending up with no results at all. just the bank balance showing the expensive exercise) :)

    i think dropping the temp is worth a try (but just if it means no harm to corals)
    maybe there is some better over all results in just doing that.

    Maybe the key is to get the temp very stable. maybe high ans frequent fluctuations in temp is the cause that these buggers to multiply.

    Now an interesting question to ask is, how many reefers running chillers have had any GHA problems. Let hope for some results!

    mmmm wait i have a solution - Try putting a condom over you return pipe so that the disease don't spread :)
     
    Last edited: 24 Nov 2010
  12. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Its called good husbandry.

    MAke sure you not overfeeding your tank. Check that detritus isnt collecting somewhere in your tank (this fuelled mine..novice aquascaping created massive dead spots). Herbivores are also a must - i dont think any tank can truly be algae free without them.

    Most importantly..there is no quick fix. Unless you find the source, the hair algae will keep coming back.
     
  13. Goby

    Goby

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    True that why we hate them so much. You have a very good point there on the "novice" aqua scape comment. I think those dead spots can really make trouble trapping detris and causing water quality problemos.

    i think its important to place the live rock in "loose" configurations so that you and your siphon hose can reach were mounds of sediments and detritus will form between and behind rocks.

    Another method in getting rid of the buggers, is to encourage coraline growth (won't we just loveve that). the coraline algae is a slient killer of GHA, and will take its spot so that it never comes back.
     
  14. Broder

    Broder Mudshark

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    An ATS will help, but as the guys have already said, if you don't find the source of the nutrients fuelling algae growth, you'll have an ongoing battle.

    I've tried the under-tank scrubber and had huge issues with humidity, to the point where it became dangerous. Without a dedicated pump, you'll battle to get enough flow over the screen. When designing your scrubber, keep ease of maintenance and removing the screen, your main goal.
     
  15. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    I have seen plenty of tanks that have hair algae growing over coralline.
    I think this myth stems from coralline prefering low nutrient systems so as a tanks nutrients drop, coralline growth slowly replaces nuisence algae growth giving the illusion of it killing hair algae.
     
  16. Goby

    Goby

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    the other way to go about this problem. isn't it funny, the more we struggle, the more we want to get rid of it, the more it comes back.

    you solution, think of how beautifull GHA is, how you could wish to have plenty of it in your tank, and then my firend it will be gone! :lol:

    PS. But don't let GHA figure out that you trying to bullshit him, then its tickets
     
  17. Goby

    Goby

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    ok, only seeing you first line comment on GHA growing over coraline after i typed one hell of a paragraph i had to edit this. so now i don;t hacve a comment. not yet :) ha lol
     
    Last edited: 24 Nov 2010
  18. Nsteyn

    Nsteyn Thread Starter

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    yeah, I have no problem with caroline, they grow absolutely everywhere, even on back panel where my GHA problem is, so not so sure about that aspect.

    Well, seems like I just need to be patient, pull out what I can and hope the buggers dont grow back..
     
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