Bio something and other additives- guide for dummies

Discussion in 'Chemical Filtration / Low Nutrient Systems - LNS' started by seank, 20 Jul 2011.

  1. seank

    seank

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    Sooooo gents and gals......

    I need some help. I have seen during the last year or so a lot of "new" things being used in reef tanks.

    I am still coming from the "waterchange, dsb and skimmer age" , and need to learn the new things= to keep up and not stay behind.

    I have heard of some pellets, vinigar, sugar, vodka etc people uses and need to learn more.

    Please give me a simple breakdown of what to use when and how, to be able to get nutrients low- as The way I understand things, is that it brings out the colour in coral, getting more bacteria etc.

    Sooooo, shoot away with the INFORMATIVE POSTS.... Ohhh, and thank you in advance for not going to confuse me
     
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  3. Tony

    Tony

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    There are a lot of things out there for nutrient reduction but I have always used bacteria and a carbon source for nutrient reduction. This has worked for me with simple systems without dsb, live rock etc.
     
  4. pXius

    pXius

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    I'm using biopellets.

    The idea is that the pellets act as a carbon and food source for bacteria to live off, the cool part comes in when the pellets are placed in a reactor. This then becomes the only place the bacteria lives, in a very high concentration.

    The reactor outlet goes into the skimmer skimming out the bacteria loaded with nitrats.

    I have no dsb and nitrat readings are 0.
    10% live rock. (60kg)

    I'm trying to find some cheato though..
     
  5. crispin

    crispin

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    sorry mr K, there is NO way of explaining this stuff without confusing you....
     
  6. seank

    seank Thread Starter

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    Thank you. Can you guys give some more details, eg, what exactly to dose and how much, where to get, when to dose what etc. And when do one dose sugar, vodka etc and why
     
  7. chikaboo

    chikaboo

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    mmmm ... with my limited knowledge ... Bacteria is doing all the hard work in getting rid of the nutrients by eating them up ..... bacteria lives of these nutrients but if you want to give them supplements and make them perform like they on steroids at peak performance then dose a carbon (vodka,sugar) so now you have bacteria that are working like they never worked before coz you have provided them with a carbon source ... BUT BEWARE .... like steroids for athletes ... if there is too much of it then the bacteria will feed of this exclusively and forget to consume the nutrients they supposed to eat .... ... hope this helps and hope its right ...... Lets wait for someone to correct me if misleading you .....
     
  8. Tony

    Tony

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    Sean, I use Prodibio and dose 1 vial of bioptim in my 700 litre tank every two weeks. You can do it every week to initially get your nutrients down. One vial can be used for up to 1000 litres. I add 1ml of vodka per 100 litres per day. But if you want to start vodka dosing you have to ease your system into it by starting at 0.5ml of vodka per day for about 2-3 weeks so you dont shock your system. Turn your skimmer off overnight when adding the bacteria and keep an eye on it the next morning when you turn it on as it's going to go crazy for about an hour. That's all I use besides carbon and filter socks with very little live rock and no DSB.

    The thinking behind carbon dosing is to overpopulate the tank with excess bacteria through feeding them a carbon source so the bacteria will oxidise both the carbon (vodka) and the pollutant (N and P) source for food and probably stop the bacteria from consuming one another once their food source has run out.The domination of certain strains of bacteria is refered to as old tank syndrome where one bacteria becomes dominant and the biological filter isnt as effective as it was, which is why we constantly add fresh bacteria to repopulate the ones that have become less in numbers.
     
    Last edited: 21 Jul 2011
  9. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Here's my take on it.

    Technologies and ideas moves forward. We are stuck in our old ways. But is it a bad thing?

    15 years ago, DSB are like - "WHAT are you talking about?"
    Well they are still greatly misunderstood and the advantage or benefits and timeline to do something is not taken into account when we as humans expect miracles out of the DSB. But DSB's allowed us to move on to corals previously deemed impossible to maintain when the primary filtration method used to be bio-balls and ceramic rings. For us today, bio-balls and ceramic rings are so nineties, so last century, but it still works for fish only setups.

    Now, 2010 onward, bio-pelets are advocated as basically giving us the same or better benefit that a DSB was supposed to give us. So we are moving to a new idea based on an old idea that we did not understand. :(

    On NP-reactors, I fail to see how it can be anaerobic. Are the bacteria are so good in consuming the oxygen, that it is forced to go anaerobic and do that bit as well? How can that be in 100 to 150mm of media in small round chamber with 1000L/h water with fresh supply of oxygen pumped through it? What happens if the system shuts down thanks to Eiskom for 4 hours. What is left of the bacteria in that reactor? A DSB will suffer a bit, but you will not have a high percentage bacteria die off. Well, maybe one day I will move on, but until I can understand this little part, I will not replace my DSB with NP-reactors. Call me old-school. But when we are playing with my fish life, I rather take the route I understand.

    thats all to do with sugar. Feeding the bacteria an overdose of it, same as overdosing kids with sugar. Bacteria / kids runs around, consume everything, until the sugar runs out. Then crash. They fall away, bacteria dying and kids sleeping. And you sit with the mess created by both. Dying bacteria and the filtration capability that vanished, kids and the messed up rooms you have to clean. So unless you are a doctor, do not overfeed your kids on sugar. Same rule applies to tanks.



    oh yes, @chikaboo, thats also a nice explanation.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  10. seank

    seank Thread Starter

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    Thank you Tony, Chika and Riaan.

    Sooo, I want to start with all this bio things.

    What do I start with and how much of it do I start with..... Oh, and besides the Vodka, what else do I dose with it and where can I get it????

    Work on about 7500lt of water....


    Last question, do I then still need to run carbon (the ones in the sock....lol)?
     
  11. Tony

    Tony

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    Carbon is always a nice water polisher and clarifier. How you run it is up to you whethr it be in a reactor or in a pair of old stockings (not yours:tt2:).
     
  12. Tony

    Tony

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    Oops double posting.
     
    Last edited: 8 Aug 2011
  13. seank

    seank Thread Starter

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    Tony, to clarify (as Alida is on her way to the bottlestore to go buy some vodka), can I use any type of vodka, and how much vodka???

    What else do I need to start adding with the vodka????

    Can I still add my usual additives eg, Strontium, Magnesium, Iodene, Kalk???
     
  14. KeeganP

    KeeganP

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    Last edited by a moderator: 8 Aug 2011
  15. seank

    seank Thread Starter

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  16. Tony

    Tony

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    Any cheap vodka. Start dosing 0.5ml per 100 litres every day for two weeks so your system adjusts to the lowering of nutrients, then up it to 1ml per day. Add the additives as usual, and bacteria love amino acids which they will also eat so you can add those as well. Add the vodka straight to your display and not your sump so your skimmer doesnt remove it before it has chance to get those goggas lekker drunk.
     
  17. seank

    seank Thread Starter

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    Thank you Tony.
    Me not good in da English, what does this mean???

    Also, what else do I need to add???

    Btw.....
    Alida bought Smirnoff Black- never bought vodka before, but I can guarantee you that Jameson is cheaper- and put to better use :biggrin: .

    Will it work??
     
  18. seank

    seank Thread Starter

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    Also @Tony , am I right by saying that I need to add 37.5ml for my tank (7500lt) ???
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  19. Tony

    Tony

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    For your start up dose that's right. You will eventually be on 75ml after a few weeks. It's a lot but you have a swimming pool for a tank:)
     
  20. seank

    seank Thread Starter

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    bump
     
  21. Reefhead

    Reefhead

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    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
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