Believing in products we use - cycling a tank - bacteria

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by dallasg, 28 Jul 2011.

  1. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    note this thread is based on my actual experiences of the past 20 days, if you are new marines i suggest you still understand the science and chemistry of keeping fish

    oki so everyone preaches you have to cycle your tank blah blah, so while setting up my boyu 550 i decided to read the label on Stability and follow it to the "tee"
    I added 5 fish and 5 corals and a shrimp after my water was 24deg and at salinity at 1025 with 20kg LR, so far all good and no loss, all corals are open, fish are swimming. I have used bio-balls and zeolites for bacteria hosting and using a internal skimmer.

    so if a company with 30yr experience can make a product that works this well, why isnt it promoted more, its also not the only one as prodibio states after using Start-Up you can add fish after 12hrs

    just thought i would add this to bring reefing into the 21st century

    now into the more biological side and maybe some experts can comment, I have had good experience establishing the biological filter in a reverse mode by the addition of sodium nitrite to establish the Nitrobacter population first and then the addition of ammonia to establish the Nitrosomonas. The bacteria are not fussy about their source of ammonia or nitrite The main advantage of this reverse cycling is the avoidance of the Nitrobacter inhibition by excess ammonia that ordinarily takes place in establishing a cycle. This ammonia inhibition of Nitrobacter is the main cause of cycle delays and failures.
     
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  3. jaquesdp08

    jaquesdp08

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    Ive been using Stability for years. And i believe in it 100%.

    Ive also started my tank on day 2 with this and never had any losses.. I will just not tell everyone to do it this way.
     
  4. archiecrain

    archiecrain

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    Cycling is all about this I reckon....You would see immediatly if there is something wrong in the tank and take action....someone new would not, You would also most likely use cured live rock....if your new you wouldnt know what the difference is. If someone is starting up in the hobby then they should run a full cycle to see how things work

    I followed a similar route to you when I changed over tanks useing Prodibio, with no losses, but I did have many different algae and diatom blooms for a while after the change....so there are still reasons to cycle a tank.....care should be taken when stocking so quick as you have no "safety" net.
     
    Last edited: 28 Jul 2011
  5. butcherman

    butcherman Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Special Blend....
     
  6. Jeann1

    Jeann1

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    uhmm...i'am being blond.

    Are you saying its good or bad?
     
  7. Submariner

    Submariner

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    There are some good products out there now

    I started my new tank on the zeovit system and i had corals and livestock in the tank within 10 Day,this includes SPS Clams and all other sensitive inverts and corals.
     
  8. rakabos

    rakabos

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    The cycle is all about getting the bacteria in right? So i cant see a problem with adding them in manually and no cycle as such is needed
     
  9. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    yip 100%
     
  10. rakabos

    rakabos

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    Provided its a top notch product, it makes perfect sense. One can monitor the ammonia/nitrate levels to see that its working...
     
  11. 2balive

    2balive

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    Prodibio AmmoStop and BioDigest

    Started mine last month with Prodibio AmmoStop and BioDigest. Wow, nothing.

    No Amoniak, no Nitrite, and virtually even no Nitrate!!! No cyno, no algae bloom, no red slime, nothing.

    I have been doing water changes and used well cured rock and very clean sand, so that may have help.

    This has been so smooth (I am sure I am tempting faith and will get back to a green, smelling, cover in red slime tank tonight) that I am now worried that I am starving my CUC of snails.

    Will definitely go this route in the future.
     
  12. Evo R

    Evo R

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    In the beginning of last year i started my Boyu nano.
    Used NSW , Matured LR , Arga-live substrate and and Stability.
    On the forth day at 10 to six in the morning a friend of mine phoned saying that his tank had just burst. So he rushed over with 6 butterflies and poped them in my tank.
    I followed the recomendations of Stability to the letter. Al went well for two weeks until that weekend. Left the Saturday afternnon and got back on monday, to find 4 dead and the other two hyperventaleiting(verskoon die spelling ek is eintlik Afrikaans) at the bottom. I imediatlly stuck my hand in the tank to remove the dead fish to find the water very warm. Checked the thermo meter..... sitting @ 36 deg !!!!! :eek:

    Point being is, i fully believe in Stabillity and have been useing it ever since.
     
  13. FransSny

    FransSny

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    @dallasg...your intro paragraph says it all and should be bold / highlighted !

    this is a dangerous thread as it "might" create the wrong impression. In my experience , probiotics is the way to go BUT you still need to understand not just the basics , but the whole boxomdaais regarding keeping a reef as even the best probiotics will only assist up to a point.

    It is not the answer to inexperience , bad husbandry etc. but it will make your life easier

    My 2 C
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  14. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    i agree, but even a new reefer who has read and understands can still go this route
    the secret and success is to stick with what you start, one cannot start with prodibio for the first 2 weeks to get going then stop and go dsb etc, one has to follow through on the process 100%
     
  15. Braco

    Braco

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    I have also used Prodibio and Reef Booster and those products are remarkable but they only gave me good polyp extensions and good water clarity..they are expensive to use all the time and i have found other methods of getting the exact same result...like a couple of weeks ago i had an awe full spread of GHA & Briopsis on a few live rocks some with zoa's and barley polyps...i then took the LR out one by one and placed in a bucket which i filled with the DTA tank water and made a solution on with Hydrogen Peroxide and RO Water and sprayed them..8hrs later the GHA turned white and the CUC (2X Blue legged Hermits and a couple of snails and a Sea Hare) did their thing...and viola...no more GHA, Briopsis..personally this is what works for me and my tank is looking great again..i have also started to dose vodka...wow...wow...is all i can say..everything is looking great..water clarity...water parameters...just my 2cents
     
  16. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    while i like all the responses, who wants to comment on the 6-8week cycle being needed? clearly there are alot who have gone the new age route

    and any one want to comment on the last part
     
  17. archiecrain

    archiecrain

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    Hmmmm.....tough one.....you can start a tank quick many of us have done this with out any real issues...... Got to say Cycling is pretty cheap.....and super simple....and safe.....

    The thing is If I had the choice I would still not risk expensive life stock evan if I could add them quickly....I would only speed up the process when a transfer from one tank to the other is needed....

    A full cycle is fool proof IMO
     
  18. Tremayn

    Tremayn

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    I know biodigest works like a beast! but I would not recommend that noobs take this path :) .. you learn a lot in the cycling phase
     
  19. jacoc

    jacoc

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    You would probably find in the near future that this is the new way of doing things...technology changes and there is nothing wrong with it as long as we follow the instructions on the box...

    I went a similar route and it seems to work for me as well...only in the 3rd week getting some green on one rock only, but noting to complain about.. which I think the lights are to blame...all water parameters test fine and the few corals I added is doing well...

    I can’t believe someone hasn’t told you yet to remove the bio-balls....lol...this is moss the first thing normally commented on to remove...
     
  20. did3200

    did3200

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    Started a new tank 4 weeks ago with NSW and then put fresh live rock in 2 weeks later tested water ammonia nitrites and nitrates all showed but at the bottom of all the scales I then dosed stability and 2 days later nothing except slight nitrates. Is it possiable that a cycle could be to short or is it the stabilty that helps this process a long Being a newbie I have no idea if reading the correct water parameters so early means the cycle has finished but what about MATURING a tank is there a difference
     
  21. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    I will bite the bullet.
    First question to @dallasg. The live rock, what is the quality, where does it come from, from your existing tank? Or is it freshly imported?

    I do believe, Stability will work, and why not. IF Prodibio Startup is used to transport live fish in numbers in the oriental countries, why not. But both do not work with live rock. Startup does not cure live rock. Its a bacteria load that will help temporary with the fish waste produced while in transit.

    Tank Cycle, its not about the water. Yes we call it the water must cycle first. But what are we trying to achieve. We need to ensure that whatever died in the live rock did decomposed completely. And how do we know that whatever is not rotten away. By measuring the ammonia released by the dead organisms. So yes, we can hurry things up. Or try to hurry it up. We need the surviving organisms to consume the dead matter, multiply, and establish themselves. Obviously, with too much food available the bacterial bloom will quickly outgrow the food available. And then the overstocked bacteria will die back. Only to be consumed by the surviving organism, resulting in another bloom. Until this see-saw effect balances out eventually.

    My first conclusion, you have to feed the cycle. Especially from week 3. There are hopefully worms and copepods that survived. They need food. After week 3 onwards the food available for the organisms higher up the food chain will run out. The dead matter all around will start to be used up. Without feeding, you will starve the copepods, they die and that result in more see-saw in the cycle process.
    BUT, you must feed really small amounts.

    Adding to Dallasg conclusion. Adding bacteria, as in Stability is good. You add diversity to the bacteria colony. And you kick start the process. No waiting for the few bacteria organisms that survived the import of the live rock to multiply into any numbers that will be of importance.

    Yes Stability or adding bacteria is a good thing. I use Prodibio Bio Digest (15 strains of bacteria) once a month. (yes I know, should use it every second week).

    So coming back to my question. It does come back to the quality of the live rock. If there are a lot of dead stuff in there, that stuff must first decompose and rot away. adding bacteria, yes that will help with establishing a bacteria colony capable to get rid of the corpses quicker.

    At the end of the day, the cycle is not done until the dead has been eaten.
     
    Last edited: 28 Jul 2011
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