Bee's with Crispin

Discussion in 'The Sump' started by dallasg, 11 Feb 2009.

  1. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    was watcing a show on discovery about the bee populations dying around the world and einstein said that when bees die out, man will only be around for 4 years afterwards.

    also i heard/read somewhere that honey is one of the foods that is not easily allowed to be moved from country to country cause of it being biological in nature, is that a myth?
     
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  3. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    get my honey Q's
     
  4. crispin

    crispin

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    sorry dallas i actually missed this, distracted by mouse!

    the bees in the states in particular but world wide too are indeed in deep deep trouble. Its a situation we call Collony collapse disorder whereby the collony juist seems to leave and die. the truley worrying thing is we dont actually know why!

    bees, through the action of pollination contribute to an estimated 40% of the worlds food production, simply put they are the most important agricultural tool we have, outweighing things like fertolizers and mechanical advances. Thats what einstein meant, "if the bees die, man soon follows'

    The import/export of honey around the world is restricted, but with care can easily be done. SA is rather antiquated and demands that all honey entering SA is irradiated to kill off possible diseases. But then we have all the diseases which they were looking to avoide anyway! so its pointless to irradiate honey comming into sa and damaging the honey anyway

    honey truley is an amazing substance, as is bees wax and propolis. Honey is one of the very few natural food stuffs that does not go off, it was found in the pyrimids 4000 old and still of almost perfect quality. indeed old honeys are greatly to our advantage in that we use them to pollen date an area, due to the representation of pollens (which are distinctive) from plants in that area and thus know what the vegetation is like 4000 years ago.

    there are many theories about bees dieing, but the three most likely ones are chemical sprays, geneticly inferior gene pool (too small to start with) and GMO. if you want a chilling but facinating read, find a book called "a world without bees' it gives the most recent research into CDC and is amazing to think about
     
  5. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    awesome, looking for it on kalahari.net now.
    they are wonderful creatures, never been stung but i have had them put on me for a demonstration :) scary stuff

    i love the hive mentallity, research on bees could lead to improved artificial intelligence systems and computer programs for facial recognition. from one of my AI sites i read
     
  6. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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  7. crispin

    crispin

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    bees are used extensivley for all sorts of things other than honey production. i was asked to work on a system whereby we use bees to find land mines as they can smell the explosive. i didnt get involved though, love of legs and all that....
     
  8. Andreas

    Andreas

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    I saw a show in tv where they use bees to identify anything from explosives to drugs etc.It takes them like 5 minutes to train a bee whereas it could take dogs many months to learn the same thing.They basically expose the bees to drugs etc and then give them an taste of an ear bud dipped in sugar water.They repeat the same process after a few minutes and then the bee will always protrude his tentacles(thinking that there is a goodie).They then put them in a container that has sensors in it and as soon as the bee extends his tentacles a alarm will go off in the container. That way they just walk around and the bees will identify illegal substances etc.They were experimenting with this somewhere around the border of America:)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 11 Feb 2009
  9. crispin

    crispin

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    hehe andreas, i hadnt heard of the process as to teh training, but i bet they not scutellata, which is the african killer bee.

    ever heard that story? as to how african killer bees came to pass and where they came from?

    but training bees would make good sence with regards to mine detection, the dificulty being that the life span on a bee is so much shorter (amazingly the life span is predominatley measured by the state of the wings, much like a cars is measured by the state of the engine) that a dogs and thus the training would be difficult. but those bees on the american border will be the fat docile Italian variety they have, not those super charged africanised bees:)
     
  10. crispin

    crispin

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    and bees can detect scent to an incredibly low ppm, they use chemical substances alot in their communications, pheremones for examples
     
  11. Shaun

    Shaun Retired Moderator

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    Is this the program where they think the problem may have come from Australia.
    And how the guys in one of the Chinese provinces have to pollinate the fruit trees by hand.
     
  12. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    please share
     
  13. crispin

    crispin

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    shaun, yes to a degree, but thats a CNN thing, rather one sided. there was a theory that cell phone towers were confusing the navigation systems of bees (actually more possible that it sounds) but that was beautifully trashed in the book i mentioned:) but that hand pollination is hectoc isnt it? amazing how much they do for us:)
     
  14. Andreas

    Andreas

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    I think that a scientist from Brazil got bees out of Africa because they wanted to be the leading Honey producer in the world.One of the workers then accidently open all the "cages??" and all the queen bees the escaped and started mass producing with the other bees.I think the story goes something like that:p
     
  15. crispin

    crispin

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    i'll do the shortened version without dates as I forget them but......

    African bees are generally smaller and thus better fliers than European or Australian bees (there are 10 races of African bees, the primary one in SA is Scutellata, although we also have the cape bee A.M capensis) and as they are better fliers they get to flowers faster, further and produce alot more brood, bigger colonies, more efficient in almost every way than their lazy European counterparts. That efficiency extends to defense. So in the late 70's or so (might have date wrong) Tukkies exported hives from Pretoria to a place in Brazil called Riberoa Preto. Here they were cross breeding the African bee with the European bees to get a smaller, more productive and less docile. Nature has a sense of humor and initially the bees were smaller, but hellishly aggressive.

    they had what are called queen includers in front of the hive so that the African queens could not swarm, and lead off a whole stack of Africa bees to start new colonies. The researcher went on leave and some silly fella took these away so about 8 out of 20 escaped, but probably more. These were basically African bees from the original stock.

    At first there was no problem, especially as bees swarming (moving from one location to another) will not sting. But then they moved into hives, cross bred etc etc etc and beekeepers who were used to the docile bees had Africanized hybrids in the hives. Simply they did things to bees they were used to doing, but which you CANNOT do to African bees. As they were so used to docile bees, hives were placed close to human habitation, farm yards etc and thus when the bees started stinging, everything got stung.

    and the bees spread. The spread of the African bee through south America, Central America and into north America happened over a few very short years. Its been the most dramatic colonization by a natural insect ever recorded. There was a chance A chance, that using a natural canyon all bees would have to fly through the pass. So they killed every bees for km either side and tried to stop it. i spoke to the guy who set it up and he actually was sure they had, but they might have missed one or two before they set it up, never believing that the bees could migrate and colonize the other honey bees so fast.

    Yes african bees can and DO kill. they will sting en mass, which other bees don’t. They coordinate the attack, and one colony will alert others and so on, you get 40 hives sending out 60 000 bees each and that’s alot of stings! But if you handle them correctly they are meek and mild(ish)

    I met the guy who did the experiment. The Brazilian when i went to speak at a conference in Riberoa Preto, and he showed me a book he has of death threats, he has changed his id a number of times simply because if he was found he would be killed. So when people ask, do you have African killer bees in jhb? Say with great pride yes you do:)

    ironically its the African bee in particular that’s lead brazil and Argentina to out produce SA on citrus so drastically of recent years!

    !
     
  16. crispin

    crispin

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    very close, well done:)

    my dad went to talk to teh americans about controlling african bees, they wanted to 'óut breed' them. the way that would work was creating a huge area of american males (drones) so any princess (unmated queen) in the area would mate with american drones first. Good idea, but as daddy said...

    "every year you guys have a NY marathon. Every year its one by a Kenyan..."
    he sat down to silence. he said you could hear them thinking.

    the problem being, our males are faster fliers, smaller, so they get to the queen first...you CANT outbreed africa!
     
  17. Andreas

    Andreas

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    :lol:That about all I know about bees:pBut a very interesting story:)
     
  18. crispin

    crispin

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    what you didnt know they actually have 4 winds, which hinge with small barbs to lock together and increase the surface area in flight...

    and that only female bees can sting...

    that the queen has a 'royal sword' to kill other princesses and can sting multiple times?

    that each tea spoon of honey is the equivalent to 4 bees lives etc etc :)
     
  19. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb

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    wow that was awesome crispin. Damn man reading this now makes me wish i has met u in real life to take about stuff like this.
     
  20. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Me too, been really great finding out stuff. Please feel free to chat more about them :)
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  21. Shaun

    Shaun Retired Moderator

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    Now you see why I gave this topic its own thread.:biggrin:
     
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