Base Rock

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by Twistedmps, 27 Feb 2012.

  1. Twistedmps

    Twistedmps

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    Hey Everyone

    Just after a bit of advice what is the best base rock to use?? (hopefully something that wont break the bank);) and any idea where i can get it from i am based on the west rand of JHB

    I have a 700L Tank and cannot afford to just use live Rock.....:(


    I am not doing a full reef system just a FOWLR as this will be my first marine tank.
     
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  3. rakabos

    rakabos

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    Base rock is better imho, no unwanted crap on it ;) Just need to seed it with some bacteria which you can buy in bottle form at most shops.

    For base rock, try Jungle aquatics at Little falls garden center or Lifestyle pets on Beyers naude
     
  4. Twistedmps

    Twistedmps Thread Starter

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    Awesome thanks Mate i will give those a try:)
     
  5. eddiead

    eddiead

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    I used base rock to supplement the live rock I had from my first tank. Worked great. Now you can't even tell the difference between the two types. Can't go wrong.
     
  6. Twistedmps

    Twistedmps Thread Starter

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    Thanks man

    Is there a specific amount of rock I should have in my tank?
    My tank is 790 L with no rock ,substrate excluding
    The water in my filters?
     
  7. crispin

    crispin

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    hello Twistedmps, welcome to masa great to have you here.

    I used to be a big fan of base rock and used it extensivley in my first couple of systems but now i lean closer to the best quality LR i can get (thats not the most expensive) as i find i get far more stable tanks with it.

    base rock does work well, you just need to realise that it takes quite alot longer to reach filtration capasity and in a FOWLR system which is often stocked more with fish than in coral tanks, and often with bigger fish i would recommend you pay close attention to the skimmer you use as this will need to be a decent piece of kit.

    I think tripple 5 aquariums (nemos janitor on here and a sponsor) have base rock thats of good quality and well treated.

    I would work on around 1kg of rock per 10l of overall water vollume, so around 80-90kg in there would do well. But I would also suggest some good quality LR to seed the system, dont rely on straight dosing to seed your base rock, it will help, but nothing like having a few kg (maybe around 10) of good quality LR.
     
    Last edited: 28 Feb 2012
  8. Submariner

    Submariner

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    Guys we have some stunning texas Holey rock R79 per kilo stunning large pieces very nice for scraping.

    Can do quality live rock local and Indonesian for between R79 and 109 per kilo.

    Plenty coralline algae polyps etc.

    Purchase over 50 kilos and get a free bottle of KZ zeobak to help seed your system with beneficial bacteria.
     
  9. rakabos

    rakabos

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    Mind sharing some pics?
     
  10. Twistedmps

    Twistedmps Thread Starter

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    Hey guys

    thanks so much for all the feed back looks like my marine tank might be delayed for a bit 80kg's of rock is gonna cost a small fortune

    Do i need to put all the live rock and base rock in one time or could i start it with say 40kg's and add the remaining amount during the cycling proccess?
     
  11. rakabos

    rakabos

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    You can add rock when you want, but if its live rock you add later on it may cause a restart of the cycle. If you add base rock in later on , no problem.

    Just also note the cycle process can be managed with products like special blend and stability etc etc. So you dont have to wait weeks on end for the cycle to end. The cycle is there to establish bacteria. This you can buy in bottle form these days if u know what u doing.
     
  12. Twistedmps

    Twistedmps Thread Starter

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    Great thanks Mate

    So it would be better to start with the Live rock and add base rock as i go

    what products are best to use?

    Unfortunetly im a complete novice and dont know what im doing only what ive read on the net

    But have been keeping freshwater tanks for 14 years but marine i am a little clueless
     
    Last edited: 28 Feb 2012
  13. rakabos

    rakabos

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    Sounds like a plan yes...

    Seachem stability and Microbelift Special Blend is what ive used to speed up cycles.

    Also good idea to get an ammonia patch or test kit so you can see when the tank is ready.
     
  14. rakabos

    rakabos

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    In fact if you dose it correctly the cycle is done and dusted pretty much immediately. Emphasis on correct dosing and checking for ammonia.. BUT take your time is always the best advice in this hobby
     
    Last edited: 28 Feb 2012
  15. crispin

    crispin

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    ummm no not quite right. You DO have to wait till the cycleS (plural) have ended before you add live stock. Products like special blend, stability etc only supply a source of bacteria which help to re establish the populations in the tank, which in turn feed off the die-off matter and convert Nitrogen through its cycles. It takes a while for the bacterial populations to grow, shrink, grow again and eventually ballance and stabalise so that the Nitrogen in its various forms are converted through the Nitrogen cycles. By no means does adding a bacteria strain (or even a few) mean that your cycles are completed. All you are doing is adding bacteria, which granted helps greatly to establish the populations and increase the speed at which cycles are reduced.

    Sorry to be picky but one needs to understand the processes within a tank to be able to manage a recirculating system sustainably.
     
  16. crispin

    crispin

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    wow thats dangerous thinking! In no way would i advise someone to add base rock, dose some bacterial strain and then say your cycles are completed. That almost sounds like LFS advice!
     
  17. crispin

    crispin

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    Seeing as I am the only one disagreeing with Raakabos let me expand on what i think you should do, seeing as you wish to use a highish % of base rock as opposed to LR, especially if budget constraints are of concern.

    LR is of high vallue in a marine aquarium as it forms the 'lungs' of the system. basically using bacteria which live within the structure of the rock and which take disolved organic compounds and break them down. The structure of LR is of interest as the more dense it is the less water can move into it and the lower the amount of bacteria which live within its structure. The age (maturity) of LR is of interest as this is often an indication of the complex (as in many strains) of bacterial populations you might find and thats of use to us as certain strains of bacteria will do better at a specific O2 level, or PH or temp etc that another. As that changes so the strains of dominant bacteria change, so its valluable to have multi strains of bacteria. It takes time for these bacterial populations to collonise, develop and stabalise.

    Within base rock you just have a pourous structure that has the potencial to be collonised by bacteria (and a myrid of other organisms but its bacteria we are most concerned with regards to filtration) and house that bacteria, but often with limited passage for water to slowly infiltrate. The pourosity of LR to structural strength is still far better than most Base Rock, but thats just the way it is. Once base rock is introduced you need bacteria to migrate onto it, into it and to collonise it. Thats best achieved by using matured LR whereby the bacterial populations will migrate into the base rock.

    when aiming at 80kg rock in total for a system that you wish to save some $ on, then using a percentage of base rock (most often called that as it is placed at the bottom of a reef as a 'base' upon which LR is established) is very attractive. You can get it far cheaper (or DIY it yourself:)) and add it to the system early on. As its cheaper its often possible to get a fair amount all at once.

    then add some good LR (far lower %) to the aquascape (best for it to be touching the base rock as most bacteria do not move that much through the water collumn) so as to seed the base rock, but then you need to GIVE IT TIME as the bacterial populations and pourosity of base rock is GREATLY reduced from LR.

    I would add around 60kg of base rock, 20kg of LR but then be willing to let the tank cycle.

    adding a beacterial sollution to the water collumn will help, i am not denying that at all, indeed id recommend it. But the filtration of the base rock will be INSIDE it and that takes time.

    to overload a system that is dosed with a beacterial product and has base rock as its primary bilological filtration will be a major mistake in my view. If anything a system with base rock as its primary filtration will take LONGER to cycle and mature (two different processes) than one with LR.
     
  18. rakabos

    rakabos

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    I never said he should add a bottle of special blend and overload the system, dear lord read before you scorn!!

    You raise good points about porousness of the base rock vs that of live rock, but it also all depends on the quality of the base rock.

    And by the way I re-did my tank a while back, added 60% dead rock, 40% live rock. Did the whole chemical route, checked ammonia every day. Did not have a single problem, not a single fish died, and you are welcome to come see what my tank looks like. Just also bring a bucket to catch all the drool from your mouth.

    And dont ever compare an experienced reefer's advice to that of a LFS. If you follow the dosing instructions you can achieve a complete biofilter in a day or so, and if you keep dosing according to instructions you will NOT have any problems

    pffftttt
     
  19. Express Reef

    Express Reef

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    Round 2... Ready Fight....:lol: Wheres the popcorn? :tt2: :25:
     
  20. rakabos

    rakabos

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    hahahahaaha

    Nah not that bad, just opinions flying around, smacking each other :D
     
  21. Express Reef

    Express Reef

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    ;) Nah was hoping for round 3 :tt2::lol:
     
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