Kanga
Retired Moderator
Hi Anemone, they are generally pretty cheap fish, much cheaper than Damsels or clowns, however now that you mention it I have not seen any at my LFS for a while
Banggai Cardinals on the endangered list
- Thread starter Kanga
- Start date
Hi Anemone, they are generally pretty cheap fish, much cheaper than Damsels or clowns, however now that you mention it I have not seen any at my LFS for a while
IUCN - The World Conservation Union
I recently spoke to Matt Pedersen (who started www.mofib.com) he stated that last year it was estimated that there were only 2 million left in the wild, and of that 2 million, 1 million were collected. One in five survive in captivity for any length of time. Sad!
I recently spoke to Matt Pedersen (who started www.mofib.com) he stated that last year it was estimated that there were only 2 million left in the wild, and of that 2 million, 1 million were collected. One in five survive in captivity for any length of time. Sad!
Kanga
Retired Moderator
Wow very sad, I know Ed had a breeding pair that was breeding well in his frag tank
Awesome! I need to get in contact with him then for breeding tips! What is Ed's screen name? My pair will be arriving this month, and I have absolutely no experience in this area! Learning quickly!!!
Kanga
Retired Moderator
Damn 89% reduction in 14 years, thats just plain scarey
Yes, and currently 50% per year! Yikes!!!
Kanga
Retired Moderator
So that means down to 5% aby nest year and then 2.5% the year after?
Are there many breeding programs going on
I come up with 5.5% and 2.75%. Either way, it isn't good.
They are part of the 2008 Breeder's challenge at MOFIB. See here:
Marine Ornamental Fish & Invert Breeders :: View Forum - 2008 Breeder's Challenge
The big problem is that these fish do not have many offsprings, (less than 50) and only breed for a short time (2 years I believe).
I think I've officially hi-jacked this thread! Sorry!
They are part of the 2008 Breeder's challenge at MOFIB. See here:
Marine Ornamental Fish & Invert Breeders :: View Forum - 2008 Breeder's Challenge
The big problem is that these fish do not have many offsprings, (less than 50) and only breed for a short time (2 years I believe).
I think I've officially hi-jacked this thread! Sorry!
Kanga
Retired Moderator
Screen name is Ed, very very bright gentleman.
Thank you! I'll contact him!
Kanga
Retired Moderator
Yip, very scary,
p.s. I moved the posts into a new thread and we might get a few more people to join in as well
Not THAT bad ...NOT GREAT EITHER
I have read, heard the same story since 1996/7
It's taken IUCN that long to just establish their protocol for listing last year(2007)
It is NOT GREAT, but it isn't THAT BAD either.
There are 3 more levels before Extinction according to IUCN.
They work according to gathered biomass data in the EXPECTED habitat range. I can't recall WHO IT WAS, but a few Indonesian fish prospectors , "FOUND" Banggai cardinals alot further away than expected distribution area. THAT can reduce effective population reduction data gathered before/during this discovery.
THIS, and the ATTRACTION "OUTHOUSE cardinals" hold , drew me to obtain, observe, attempt to spawn in 1999-2003 . I managed to, but not enough to trade. Just to establish a precedent.
The facts are Pterapogon kauderni
IS POPULAR
IS HARVESTED REGULARLY
EASILY AVAILABLE
CAN BE CAPTIVE BRED
There are basically 3 routes into SA.
from Singapore, ex Indonesia
From Indonesia
From Malaysia, ex Indonesia
There are people who RAISE, CAPTURE, BREED them.
The supply route chosen indicates WHICH of the 3 sources are received.
I may get wild caught young fish, which were TANK-RAISED in captivity TR
OR
Captive BRED CB
OR
WildCaught WC
My personality decides which is better/best for the organism and hobby.
WildCaught is usually from Singapore , or from a large proportion of Indonesian imports.
Incidentally, about a dozen ornamental species are iREGULARLY mported, DIRECT from Indo...due to importers using fish just to spice/bulk up CORAL/INVERT orders.
Malaysia has a few new marine exporters, some I know - obtain tank-bred, or captive raised fish.
They are NOT cheaper than damsels or clowns.
Bali lists have them at THRICE avg clownfish species PRICE.
Singapore, almost QUADRUPLE avg Clownfish spp.
Malaysia, almost DOUBLE clownfish cost, BUT in larger shipping volume.
Sphaeremia nematoptera, Pyjama cardinal, is common, always wildcaught, and hover around clownfish prices.
Maybe you meant them, Hermann?
Locally, I have seen people misidentify ANY "dot-dash type" cardinals as Banggai
OH! We pay MORE to land tankbred clowns, but survival is 90%+.
CR, and TB Banggai are SO much tougher too.
Import, capture sress, acclimation problems aside..ONCE SETTLED DOWN, THESE SHOW INTRASPECIFIC AGGRESSION.
Hence, need more attention during QT.
Even MORE attention if you intend pairing up recent imports.
Judged over last 8years import/purchases data, and personal communication with industry/hobby folk.
Care to guess why " OUTHOUSE CARDINAL" is a GREAT NAME for P kauderni?
I have read, heard the same story since 1996/7
It's taken IUCN that long to just establish their protocol for listing last year(2007)
It is NOT GREAT, but it isn't THAT BAD either.
There are 3 more levels before Extinction according to IUCN.
They work according to gathered biomass data in the EXPECTED habitat range. I can't recall WHO IT WAS, but a few Indonesian fish prospectors , "FOUND" Banggai cardinals alot further away than expected distribution area. THAT can reduce effective population reduction data gathered before/during this discovery.
THIS, and the ATTRACTION "OUTHOUSE cardinals" hold , drew me to obtain, observe, attempt to spawn in 1999-2003 . I managed to, but not enough to trade. Just to establish a precedent.
The facts are Pterapogon kauderni
IS POPULAR
IS HARVESTED REGULARLY
EASILY AVAILABLE
CAN BE CAPTIVE BRED
There are basically 3 routes into SA.
from Singapore, ex Indonesia
From Indonesia
From Malaysia, ex Indonesia
There are people who RAISE, CAPTURE, BREED them.
The supply route chosen indicates WHICH of the 3 sources are received.
I may get wild caught young fish, which were TANK-RAISED in captivity TR
OR
Captive BRED CB
OR
WildCaught WC
My personality decides which is better/best for the organism and hobby.
WildCaught is usually from Singapore , or from a large proportion of Indonesian imports.
Incidentally, about a dozen ornamental species are iREGULARLY mported, DIRECT from Indo...due to importers using fish just to spice/bulk up CORAL/INVERT orders.
Malaysia has a few new marine exporters, some I know - obtain tank-bred, or captive raised fish.
They are NOT cheaper than damsels or clowns.
Bali lists have them at THRICE avg clownfish species PRICE.
Singapore, almost QUADRUPLE avg Clownfish spp.
Malaysia, almost DOUBLE clownfish cost, BUT in larger shipping volume.
Sphaeremia nematoptera, Pyjama cardinal, is common, always wildcaught, and hover around clownfish prices.
Maybe you meant them, Hermann?
Locally, I have seen people misidentify ANY "dot-dash type" cardinals as Banggai
OH! We pay MORE to land tankbred clowns, but survival is 90%+.
CR, and TB Banggai are SO much tougher too.
Import, capture sress, acclimation problems aside..ONCE SETTLED DOWN, THESE SHOW INTRASPECIFIC AGGRESSION.
Hence, need more attention during QT.
Even MORE attention if you intend pairing up recent imports.
Judged over last 8years import/purchases data, and personal communication with industry/hobby folk.
Care to guess why " OUTHOUSE CARDINAL" is a GREAT NAME for P kauderni?
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I can't answer those questions. I can say, that I feel that it went on too long before it was well known (and it is still not). I myself found out by accident, which I think is sad. There are so many boards in this hobby. Unfortunately, the information is delayed to us sometimes.
My thoughts as far as breeding, is that these fish only breed a short time throughout their life, and do not give many offsprings. We all know that raising them costs more that buying wild caught. I'm willing to put the money into 25 (more/less, possibly none) to see that wild collection is reduced or stopped, but not everyone is.
My friend, who is giving me the breeding pair of cardinal fish that she has, is having me take care of her baby Seahorses in a week while she is gone. She currently has about 75, and expects another 200 in the next day or two!
I know NOTHING about Seahorses! I got a week to learn! Yikes!Luckily, some are going to other nearby reef friends!
Banggai's are far easier to raise than clowns and I think easier than Seahorses but could be kept with seahorses giving the opportunity to raise both simultaneously which is what I am intending to do.