Back to Basics?

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by viper357, 2 May 2014.

  1. viper357

    viper357 Admin MASA Contributor

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    I have come across quite a few threads over the past few weeks where some of the more serious reefers are handing out some seriously higher grade technical information, which is absolutely fantastic and much appreciated, however I think we should always be weary of the fact that a lot of people simply want to have a marine tank in their home and not have to go back to school to do that, so let's not treat all of the reefers as if they were looking for a university degree science lesson, sometimes it's good to stick to the basics and not scare people off that are simply looking for some casual advice.

    With regards to this there have been a few belittling comments and criticisms which I think may be a bit overkill and rather off-putting to the casual hobbyists, lets be mindful that not everyone can or wants to know the scientific composition of a grain of sand, sometimes they just want to look at the pretty fish, so let's not criticise that please. :)

    This hobby can be a seriously technical obsession or it can be a wonderful, easy and enjoyable treat to have in the home. Lets not forget the simple reefers out there please. :)
     
    DerekL and Midnight Reefer like this.
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  3. Kunhardt

    Kunhardt

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    great you have picked up on this Viper! I was actually just thinking the exact same thing today!

    One thread in particular where people were trying to help a newbie with a question and they just got attacked by "those in the know" for giving out incorrect advice...the whole thread just seemed to spiral into a holier than though, condescending toned, negative attituded scene...if actually felt sorry for the person who asked the question in the first place, as well as those who tried to help. Things like this definitely would put those that are new to the hobby off asking questions and using forums in particular...people who have the knowledge should remember they are on forums like this to share it not belittle those who are not as knowledgeable as themselves. :)
     
    DerekL likes this.
  4. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    Is this thread directed at me @viper357?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  5. FishyPanda

    FishyPanda

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    I will agree to this. I am new to marines and still have loads to learn.
    I have a basic understanding of whats what, but it can be off putting when you get guys who have been in the hobby for many many years that seem to talk down to us newbies and speak in jargon that not all of us know. Its like being a doctor, we all know a bit about the body but not all of us know the exact details of how the brain works, It takes people with a passion and the knowlage to pass the knowlage down to the next generation so that the hobby and science can graw and develop.
     
  6. Monti

    Monti

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    I dont think its aimed at you
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  7. viper357

    viper357 Thread Starter Admin MASA Contributor

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    No, I don't think I've ever seen you make any belittling or criticising comments. This thread is not directed at anyone in particular, it's more of a general "thought for the day" type of thing. :)

    While I'm with you though @Nemos Janitor, I'm pretty sure you should know where I am coming from with my thoughts? As an installer/maintenance business you must have some customers that aren't interested in the deep down aspects of their aquariums and they just want you to keep it looking good for them?
     
    Last edited: 26 Nov 2015
  8. Monti

    Monti

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    In my opinion if you are over giving advice... then its time to take a break from forums. Forums are there for giving and taking advice.
     
  9. carlosdeandrade

    carlosdeandrade

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    There are so many ways to do things in our hobby. There are certain fundamentals that need to be followed, but each tank is different and each person has his way of doing things. In the end, it's also about showing respect for everyone, no matter how difficult that may seem.
     
  10. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    Thank you for clearing that up Dean. :thumbup: I got the impression I was lumped into the " serious reefer" bracket and all those things inferred applied to me.

    Whilst I understand that we want to keep things simple for newbies, we also need to take cognizance that we are dealing with live animals/invertebrates/vertebrates. These creatures we keep are not plastic toys or electronic devices that can be discarded when the novelty wares off. The demand on the resources and viability of the industry is at risk. We, and WE refers to the experienced and knowledgable reefers as well as this forum, need to give the best advice to newbies to ensure that the creatures kept, or to be kept, get the best chance of longevity.

    This forum does not have the privilege of the many renowned experts that can give advice. We have a few very good aquariust that have passion and have taken the time to educate themselves. We do not want to "P" these reefers off and stop them posting and helping all. We have had a few very good specialist gurus that have left the forum, or do not contribute like they used to. Not exactly sure into the reason, but hopefully another reason is not supplied to those that are giving and parting with passionate information.

    I too have been frustrated by reefers trying to help but giving incorrect information. Should I just let the newbie get feed bull or should I just keep quiet. Lately I have just resorted to avoid conflict and simply read most posts with amusement. I must add that this is just my perception.
     
    Last edited: 2 May 2014
  11. HOT SAUCE

    HOT SAUCE

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    this hobby can be over complicated if we want to make such.. and at the same time can be simple and enjoyable with the right advise and a helping hand... I think as one progress in the hobby and as the months and years go by its inevitable that one will eventually get better and deeper understanding of how things work in the marine tank, pick up few chemistry formulas there and there and gain experience in dealing with certain situations. for a newbie all that info can be very overwhelming and even boring as it was for me when I started almost two years ago. I would Google "calcium in the reef tank" for example hoping for a quick two liner telling me all I need to know about calcium yahoo.answers style, instead I come up with articles by Randy Holmes-Farley and a quarter through the read and I'm either asleep or wanting to trow my phone at the wall. eventually with time we gain better understanding and Randy Holmes isn't so scary anymore.
    the best way to learn is to ask questions and to engage in conversations. personally I like to try and help and share whatever experience and knowledge I have. in hoping that it will hope the next person but as well as to improve my understanding of the subject and polish up few things I might be forgetting.. however it might happen that even with the best of intentions one can give a wrong advise, or partially wrong one which might have a big or small effect on ones tank. few jokes and a little sarcasm have never killed anybody but as long as a right advise and explanation where one has gone wrong can follow.
    its important that people are not scared to ask questions and equally important that people are not scared to try and help. I've seen many many threads not only here but on other sites.. especially on RC where someone will ask a question and few people will engage and then ten post down someone will just come up with a statement that kills the thread instantly discouraging people from trying to help and even people asking questions..
    a forum is like a family we must all just learn to be patient and tolerate each other.
     
  12. viper357

    viper357 Thread Starter Admin MASA Contributor

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    haha, spot on. :p
     
  13. LCornelius

    LCornelius Moderator

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    I believe there is no "right" way to do things.

    Yes, there are the basic guidelines that should be followed.

    Each reefer should figure out what work best for their reef.
     
  14. Snoek

    Snoek

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    This hobby is as simple as what we make it to be. If you believe it the coral will decide if you will achieve it. Lol.
     
  15. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    Bud how can you say "the corals will decide" . You and all reefers are playing with life. Corals and fish are not disposable commodity's. They are life.

    This hobby is not simple. It is complex and not a toy to play with and discard when difficulties arise . It is all about bringing the ocean into the home in a responsible way.

    I am so disappointed this thread came about. It is going to chase away knowledgeable reefers and promote wrong advise unchecked. The more posts I read the more inclined I am to recluse.
     
    Last edited: 3 May 2014
  16. Pantoffel

    Pantoffel

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    Typical SA mentality no effort to help a fellow SA reefer. Yes us newbies might (and will) make mistakes and yes in this fragile industry we cant afford any mistakes. But this is where you expert reefers are so important to keep the industry alive.

    And you of all people are suppose to understand this.

    You guys are building my new marine tank for me and I have the greatest recpect for you and I didn't chose you because you were the cheapest (which you weren't) but I chose you coz you were willing to take my hand be patient with me and teach me to keep a part of the ocean in my living room.

    Now imagine you withdraw from posting and don't have the patience to teach a noob! What will come from your business how long will your business be sustainable? ?

    Yes I do understand that it must be VERY VERY frustrating seeing over and over the same mistake made by newcomers. But that's unfortunately the industry you chose take it and make the best of it and strive to become the best OR leave it and let it slide down its slippery slope.

    I for one really value all your posts and read it about 3 times to make sure I fully understand what you are trying to say.

    Ps because of that I understand the difference between sg and salinity;) ( I hope)
     
  17. butcherman

    butcherman Moderator MASA Contributor

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    I think the biggest issue here is guys want to learn enough to make their tanks work, that that is why they come here for advice.

    Might i suggest that instead of the "experienced reefers" write us some articles, rather that have to continually repeat themselves over and over, this would greatly benefit everyone. look at Ivan's sps articles we all waiting for the next installment...
     
  18. Kunhardt

    Kunhardt

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    I think you missed the whole point of this thread completely!
     
  19. HOT SAUCE

    HOT SAUCE

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    its very important that one must have adequate understanding of what is requited to keep a healthy reef tank and fish as @Nemos Janitor pointed out we are dealing with live creatures and we need to ensure they are comfortable in their habitat as we are in our homes. at the same time I don't think a degree in chemistry or biology is required. what is needed is for one to be willing to learn and for the other to be willing to share the knowledge.. I think this thread is aimed at ensuring that more experienced members are wiling to share what they know about the hobby and be patient even when someone makes and absolute wrong statement or suggestion. if someone gives out wrong advise I seriously doubt its with the intention to harm the next guys tank, this is when we need the more experienced members to make a correction and explain where one goes wrong.. that's the only way to share knowledge.. by healthy debate..
    I can understand the frustration when someone makes a wring statement in a field one is an expert on, be it a hobby or work. but the wrong stately could very come from doing the wrong type of research or he/she might've gotten the wrong advise elsewhere.
    I was recently engaged in a thread which couldve been quite informative and including myself many people could've learned a thing or two... instead the thread is a dead end now and if you look at the last post you would understand why. all it takes is for someone who has a better understanding to be willing to help and at the same time to try and not overfeed the person who has made the mistake with information that he/she might not understand
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  20. HOT SAUCE

    HOT SAUCE

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    personally I did not join MASA to say things like ... tagging, exciting, keep the pics coming, following , wow, :thumbsup: etc.. or to look at pretty tank pictures.. for that I can simply Google "amazing reef tanks" and click on images.. done.. I joined MASA to learn and to get corrected when I make a mistake... and I seriously want to be corrected and challenged as long as is in a good form of sharing the knowledge.
     
  21. Dian6430

    Dian6430

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    I have to agree with @HOT SAUCE. Just to add as a newbie goes along in the hobby they learn stuff and read advise given to their questions or other newbies questions. When another newbie comes along and asks a questions and one feels but i can give advise out of what i have been told and learned and one gives it just to see a bit later that another more experienced reefer has come along and makes your post out to be the most stupid thing said ever. I think that also keeps some people from sharing their knowledge. I really dont care to be helped correct but do it in a way that no one takes affence as i think that causes a lot of people not to post anymore.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
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