Are filter socks robbing our tanks

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by mandarinman, 1 Jan 2014.

  1. mandarinman

    mandarinman

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    I have been reading various articles and came across one opinion in particular that has me intrigued. This is the point of view:
    "Filter socks remove particles containing nutrition generated by feeding fish and the fishes bye products that can be used by organisms including corals in dt resulting in the need to replace the same nutrition we have just removed from the tank.?

    Please note this is an opinion I have read and would like to bounce off you guys. I am currently using filter material and I am trying to decide wether or not to remove it.
     
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  3. JackSplat

    JackSplat

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  4. HOT SAUCE

    HOT SAUCE

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    in my nano I use a sponge in my first chamber above the ceramic rings.. but every few days I like to remove it for a day or two just to let some of "the good stuff" pass. I think its important to use socks when we are removing/cleaning certain algaes from the display to trap them in the sock and prevent them from attaching somewhere else
     
  5. HOT SAUCE

    HOT SAUCE

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    also to be effective the sock must be cleaned very often something that not everyone likes to do..
     
  6. mandarinman

    mandarinman Thread Starter

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    That is a good point for when we remove algaes
     
  7. Riaanv

    Riaanv

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    Skimmers also remove a lot of the same. I do not use filter socks but skim heavily. There are alternative systems out there with no skimming, algae scrubbers, cryptic zones, dsb. These systems apparently have a lot of natural food due to nothing removing it except for in system animals. To me it seems easier and safer to skim and use biocubes plus phos remover for water quality and feed more. I am thinking about adding more dsb, and cryptic zone tanks to my system which will circulate at night with the skimmers off.
     
  8. Fred d

    Fred d

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    Explain to me the logic behind cryptic zones and more so WHY NOT TO SKIM AT NIGHT ... my ignorance
     
  9. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Take note that not all skimmers can be set up on a timer. Pumps like those on Reeftek TS2 will strip its impeller.
     
  10. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Cryptic zone is a dark slow moving part of the reef. Deep inside or under with no light and almost stagnant water flow.

    They do work wonders as filter feeders will eventually take over a cryptic zone, cleaning the water like no other filter can. But these takes time to mature. And for those who cannot even wait for a DSB to mature, do not even bother. I set up a cryptic zone in a 40L black Roughtote bin long ago. I never disturbs it and it is rather full of leftover rocks. The bin serves as a table in my fishroom. Mostly got 2 different type of fan worms in there.
     
  11. Fred d

    Fred d

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    thanks for that @RiaanP , now I also know ...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  12. Riaanv

    Riaanv

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    Also the reason for not skimming at night is that the zooplancton is more active at night (in the water column and not in the substrate). I might be wrong here... just my observation from my current tank

    Not skimming at night will theoretically take out less zooplank.
     
    Last edited: 1 Jan 2014
  13. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    Don't you have pH issues?
     
  14. HOT SAUCE

    HOT SAUCE

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    @Riaanv
    that's a very good point about the zooplankton feeding at night.. I think also pods and other small criteria come out at high when most of the predators are sleeping.

    but we couldn't possibly remove the filter sock every night .. at least I wouldn't want to for that. so are we better off without the filter sock in your opinion.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  15. Riaanv

    Riaanv

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    On the PH issue I have not started with not skimming at night yet. Need to first establish that it will make a difference natural food wise?Agree PH would need to be monitored. I do however have four airstones running through cubes and two 900mm x 500mm ATS screens running which should compensate. Can also run a skimmer pump to oxiginate if needed.

    On whether we are better off without filter socks, my opinion is yes and I dont use them. I have seen better looking systems than mine that do use them...it all depends, personal preference, what is your end goal, etc. My goal is to eventually get to natural filtration and skimmerless. I like the idea of more natural food being available in the system.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  16. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    i dont think filter socks do any more damage then skimmers.
    my view is if its left the DT it must be taken out the system, there is plenty left in the DT as we know our cycle and nitrate product continues...

    as for not using skimmers, i used to run the same and many threads from years ago where i advocated it but after researching the tech behind it, i learned that only about 2-4% of proteins are removed and that the real benefit was the DOC's that were removed from the water.

    now the issue of it removing all the "good" stuff is not entirely true, if you look at skimmers today they all have large pumps and massive flow thru rates which negates the real effect, proteins need about 2min32s to be removed from water which is nearly impossible with a 3000L pump attached :p and system water should ideally be passed through the skimmer twice every 24hr. now while my research yielded older articles, the science should still be valid. well thats my opinion, but if you have newer studies please share

    have a read Skimmer Design 101
     
  17. mandarinman

    mandarinman Thread Starter

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    Old skimmers had long contact tubes to enable a bubble to connect to a particle and lift it out of the tube and take it to the top.the idea was if the particle was held by the bubble it would be lifted up and out. The fault with that analogy is that the bubble pops at the top releasing the particle. What happens in a modern shorter skimmer with higher volume of bubbles is that due to the huge blanket of bubbles moving I upwards more particles are picked up as less are dropped due to the bubbles working together in a tag fashion to lift impurities to the surface. ( bubbles touch bubbles so impurities being lifted are always in contact with the surface of a bubble and are skimmed out. The particles and impurities are concentrated in the neck of the skimmer as impurities are continuously added till surface tension is such that it lifts the top "skin " of impurities into cup. The impurities cannot fall past the bubble column which is much denser than in the past and that is why new skimmers can push such volumes of flow and skimm better than old skimmers.
     
  18. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    you got a study for this? it sounds plausible...
    or are we hood-winked by the manufacturers
     
  19. mandarinman

    mandarinman Thread Starter

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    Purely personal observation having had from the old to the new
    Ps proof of old theories? Studies? Didnt mean much cos they didnt have anything to compare it to as newer technologies only came afterwards
     
    Last edited: 8 Jan 2014
  20. VicZA

    VicZA

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    SO what is the verdict then - personal preferences ?

    I run with 2 x filter socks (not too fine - pool gobblers) and a JNS Skimmer that works very well. Should I remove the socks from time-to-time and should I stop the skimmer for a period of time ? Mine runs 24/7
     
  21. mandarinman

    mandarinman Thread Starter

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    Summarised version: no
     
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