Algea Scrubber and bacteria/Vodka Method

Discussion in 'Biological/Natural Filtration and Deep Sand Beds' started by Ridwaan, 15 Dec 2009.

  1. Ridwaan

    Ridwaan

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    Howzit guys..

    I been thinking..Can one use both these methods of filtration or will one outcompete the other?:bump:

    Correct me if im wrong, but if one is using the Bacteria/Vodka method, the bacteria uses up the phosphates and nitrates and so does an algea scrubber....So I can only use one of these methods of filtration to remove nutrients...and I have a large skimmer.
    Your thoughts on this???
     
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  3. Sentari

    Sentari

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    Ridwaan... Look what happened to Adee's scrubber when he started dosing.

    The algae started dying off and falling back into the tank. I wouldnt suggest doing both methods.

    Maybe Adee can shed some light here also.

    Also whats your reason for doing both?
     
  4. Ridwaan

    Ridwaan Thread Starter

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    Was thinking of doing the Algea Scrubber more for phosphate removal and algea in my display...

    I am dosing Bacteria at the moment...
     
  5. Broder

    Broder Mudshark

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    Algae will only stop growing and die if there isn't enough light, flow or if the screen is not rough enough. The chances of bacteria multiplying so fast that they outcompete any other form of nitrogen absorption overnight, is unlikely IMO. As DIC's decrease, so algae growth will decrease, but not a mass die-off.

    To the best of my knowledge, and I've never dosed or researched vodka dosing, I would think that by introducing a pure dissolved organic compound(DOC) like this, you'd be feeding the nitrogen cycle? So you're feeding denitifying bacteria, which wouldn't effect the phoshate level. As you're constantly introducing N, there should always be enough to feed both the algae and the bacteria. The one that is more efficient will dominate, but not totally overpower the weaker. This is just speculation on my part, so don't take it as researched.
     
  6. Broder

    Broder Mudshark

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    And at the end of the nitrogen cycle you're left with N and O2, both of which are required for photosynthesis, so in actual fact there shouldn't really be much overlapping in the food requirements for algae and bacteria. Or am I over-simplifying it?
     
  7. Ridwaan

    Ridwaan Thread Starter

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    Thanks mudshark..makes perfect sense..so the one compliments the other...
    Thanks man
     
  8. SantaMonica

    SantaMonica

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    My understanding is: Dosing carbon increases bacteria, which can reduce N and P to real zero, which can and has stalled scrubber growth according to user reports. I am currently experimenting in dosing vodka without a skimmer, which has the effect of converting inorganic N and P into coral food (bacteria). Other known info is in the new scrubber FAQ: Algae Scrubbers • View topic - ALGAE SCRUBBER FAQ (12/17/09)
     
  9. Falcon

    Falcon

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    well i would think they are competing for the same food so only add the second if the first cant keep up to your nutrient control needs.......

    theres just one thing i'm not sure about:how much p do the bacteria remove and is this enough removal or would you still need a seperate GFO etc?
     
  10. SantaMonica

    SantaMonica

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    Vodka (without skimmers) and scrubbers do seem redundant. But everyone except me runs vodka with skimmers, which changes the entire universe because the food is not kept in the water when you use a skimmer.

    For P removal, scrubbers can remove it down to less-than-measurable (where the algae stop growing), but vodka can remove it down to true zero, which can and has killed entire tanks.
     
  11. Mekaeel

    Mekaeel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Only if overdosed, and water parameters especially Alk is too high or too low.
     
  12. Adee

    Adee

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    Interesting, I think more tests are needed by more reefers. Although judging from what I was able to attain, pre-bac dosing vs afterwards....I was able to harvest much more algae before I started dosing with prodibio/microbakter...which led me to switch the scrubber off....although I do plan to turn it back on after I have done some more mods. Will see what happens.
     
  13. SantaMonica

    SantaMonica

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    Yes, overdosed is what I meant.

    Thinking more about redundancy, I meant in terms of N and P removal. But after that they are different, since scrubbers add pods, remove metals, and add oxygen. I'm not sure if scrubbers add bacteria.
     
  14. Bob the (reef)builder

    Bob the (reef)builder

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    They definately compete. Both will remove P and N.
    Bacteria and carbon dosing traditionaly need skimmers to remove the bacteria. Whichever method you use, ensure that you have a very good po4 measuring device.
     
  15. Falcon

    Falcon

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    ok so both have advantages and dis advantages as they do the same thing via different means....so scrubber advantage less dependant on skimmer and removes metals and cant really drop your phos too low...but harder to build/design.vodka method feeds your corals and can be quite easy t set-up but needs decent skimmer and dosage needs to be properly monitored....

    amazing how things changed in the space of a year lol just a year ago hardly anyone was using these methods!
     
  16. toppdogg

    toppdogg

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    sorry to hijack i am thinking of vodka dosing what is the recomended amount per liter ?
     
  17. Mekaeel

    Mekaeel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    It all depends on how heavily stocked your system is. In a heavily stocked SPS system, no more than 1ml per 100l.
    Begin you dosage as such :
    Week 1 : 1ml
    Week 2 : 2ml's
    Week 3 : 3ml's (get the picture?)
    Until you end up with eg. 5ml's per 500l's.
    Signs of overdosing will be a diatom bloom. Immediately cut down on dosage.
     
  18. toppdogg

    toppdogg

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    thanks mak
    are you dosing ?
    has it made a diffs?
     
  19. Mekaeel

    Mekaeel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Yip dude. I have been dosing since 2007. It works. But becareful not to overdose. Systems have been wiped out in the past. ;)
     
  20. toppdogg

    toppdogg

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    cool dude
    will start soon thanks for the advise
     
  21. aminyassien

    aminyassien

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    why vodka !?

    can we use alchool instead
     
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